2020 is the first year I have (finally) received my pitiful UK State pension.
As we all know this is taxable at source in the UK and is not taxable in France (along with many other UK government pensions both local and state) but it is declarable here in France.
The question is - which box do you fill in on your French tax return?
I have used my messagerie personalisee to ask the French Tax authorities but want to be able to cross-check the answer I get from as many sources as possible.
THere must be many people on here who have been receiving and declaring their UK state pension on their French tax returns for many years. their advice would be welcome.
Iām sorry, you are wrong. Yes it is assessed for tax in France along with your world wide income - it is not a Govt Service pension per se (even though HMG pay it). You need to complete the Form France-Individual if you have not already done so in order that your tax situation re the Double Taxation Treaty is correctly handled by the HMRC. Any tax you pay in the UK is notified to the French fisc on the tax return by you. Govt Service Pensions paid by the likes of Police, Fire and Local Authority, & certain NHS are taxed rightly in the UK but the State (old age) pension is not.
There is a stayontopic thread specifically set aside for completing online tax returns in France which explains what goes in which box on the French tax return which you can consult at your leisure. There is no need to repeat the information here.
Helpfully, the guides are located here
Nope, you should as Graham says do the paperwork to get it paid gross, as it is taxed here. Iām only repeating this here so you get the reassurance that this is completely correct (not that I have mine yet, but OH does).
Look at the links he provided, very helpful and very clear. 1AM is the way to go! ( the only box number I can remember as I always read it as āI amā.
I think at some point you erroneously conflated the tax regime of UK government pensions (Civil Service, teachers et al) with that of the UK state pension. The former are taxed at source in the UK and the latter are taxable here in France.
According to a very helpful lady in our local tax office, it goes like this -
Salaries, Box 1AG ( worry about tax already taken, particularly in the case of foreign salary)
Private Pensions, Box 1AM
State Pensions, Box 1AL, and also Box 1AH of form 2042
If a seconds declarant has a state pension - Box 1BL
I made an appointment with the tax office to fill in the form simply because our income is complex. Three state pensions from three different countries, salary from a 4th country. Plus the usual add-ons for interest from savings accounts.
Donāt forget the forms for declaring foreign bank accounts.
The lady I saw was actually nice enough to check everything against the big rulebook they have, and then actually fill out the forms for me.
Hope this helps.
Oh - state pensions do not attract the CGT charge in France, but Private pensions do. So get an S1 if you can that exempts the private pension too.
1AL is āPensions percue par les non-residents et pensions de source etrangere avec credit dāi,pot egal a lāimpot francaisā (apologies for the lack of accents).
Done the declaration for non-french bank accounts (donāt forget about PayPal etc.).
@Grahame
Sorry, but you have mistold the SIP at Limoux the status of your pension which is why they have told you to place the figure in 1AL.
The State pension is NOT, I repeat NOT a government pension as outlined above and your state pension figure should be reported in box 1AM.
If you ask them again, this time making it absolutely clear that you are asking where to place the figure for the state pension, NOT a Govt Service Pension, I am certain they will confirm that you place the figure in box 1AM. If you told them it is a Government Pension, I can well understand why they have been misled into giving you the wrong information.
Perhaps someone may be able to advise you the penalty for being economical with the truth to the fiscā¦
What our local tax office told us here was that it wasnāt a āstateā pension - it was known to them as an āold age pensionā and therefore had to go in 1AM as it was taxable.
Absolutely Angela. But much depends on what the fisc were asked to respond to
The answer the OP got was correct for Government Service Pensions but not the OAP which is what the OAP aka āState Pensionā is known as in the UK. It is clearly set out in the Double Taxation Treaty.
Iām concerned that people may read the OPs comment and mistakenly believe that they having been placing the OAP figure in the wrong box on the French tax return. Itās significance is important because, if the OP is in receipt of other income in France which he has to declare, placing the OAP in the wrong box might impact on his tax position if it otherwise tips him over the limit beyond which tax is due.
Even more so when the OP implies this is an official response from the fisc when it is in fact the answer to a different question!
Sorry to rejuvenate this age old thread but I couldnāt remember or find where I had posted before.
I recently (last month) received a demand to āreguraliseā my(our) declarations for '23 and '24 because of an anomaly. .
This resulted in an exchange of emails which when printed out (admittedly large) to 12 pages of foolscap. Not getting anywhere and armed by the threat of shelling out ā¬1555 for CRDS (social contributions), I had an interview with an Assistante Sociale yesterday.
She read every word and promised to phone the lady in Bethune and get back to me via SMS, but thought she had found the problem.
Although I have declared every penny of foreign income for 26 years with only once having been asked to pay (ā¬79 in 2010) I naturally thought that I was doing it right. But the AS discovered one little āfactā on the paperwork which said I should have been declaring in boxes 8TX and 8TQ.
She said that if I have been doing it wrong I will have to pay 50% of the above figure. So, finally getting some light into dark corners once the power cut was over I discovered all the paperwork for those 2 years.
There are no boxes numbered 8TX or 8TQ,
While I await the ASās reply I am wondering, does anyone else use either of those, and if so, how did you find them?
David,
I believe your adviser may well be in error. 8TQ and 8TX concern themselves with Social Charges, but I believe that you probably have a UK issued form S1 correctly registered with the French authorities, in which case you donāt have to pay French Social Charges at all as your health / social security costs are reimbursed to France by the UK.
So just tick box 8SH on the 2042C form and that will suffice.
No Robert, you have got the wrong end of the stick, I used to work here so totally in the French system and no S1, although my late wife did have one but I declared her UK pensions as well as I thought it made little difference to any demands. I probably didnāt realise she was exempt too.
I havenāt found those 2 boxes, they are certainly absent on the forms I have of the periods concerned. Maybe more will be explained thanks to the efforts of the AS in the coming week.
If I have erred perhaps I should be pleased that they are prevented by law from re-
claiming contributions due in the earlier years because if I made a mistake then I may well have made a mistake for the 21 years beforehand.
If you would care to follow this link Formulaire nĀ°2042 | impots.gouv.fr
and then scroll down a little, you can then click where it says Formulaire 2042-C and it should download a PDF file of the 2042C automatically to your screen.
Then scroll down to page 4 of the form and youāll see the boxes in question.
P.S. Didnāt realise that you donāt have an S1.
Thank you, this is what I found, translated to English for 8TQ
Income from activity and replacement subject to social contributions
Income from activity and replacement from foreign sources and deferred salary from the heir of a farmer, taxable to the CRDS,
to CASA (certain pensions and early retirement allowances) and to the CSG at the rate of:
ā non-salary income
This what I found for 8TX translated into English:
I wonder why I donāt appear to have received that form. Since I began reporting online I have always saved the forms I received, copied before and after completion for the declaration.
Perhaps Iāll know more when the AS gets back to me after talking to the impots.
In some danger here of mixing up my copies, translations and quotes but the following preceded the 2nd quote above.
Income from activity and replacement subject to social contributions
Income from activity and replacement from foreign sources and deferred salary from the heir of a farmer, taxable to the CRDS,
to CASA (certain pensions and early retirement allowances) and to the CSG at the rate of:
That might be a copy of the first quote but I am too brain dead now to go through it all again. You can see why I am confused, especially as I never have received that form.
