We are supposed to sign today but feeling a bit railroaded. I have been asking for around 10 days to meet notaire to discuss what clauses we want in compromis , tontine etc.
Finally received a draft last night ( too late) the very first paragraph states this and tbh neither us nor translator happy. Neither has it been discussed and we definitely not requested.
Anyone experienced this wording and what it would mean for us if ie sellers dropped out ?
Notaire basically just saying come to office and all explained but we have requested this be excluded and a normal compromis used.
The start of the draft has this and i am quite concerned as a) no we never requested it to be notarised as a private sale. B) knew nothing about it until received last night.
Asked them to change to normal compromis but they are just replying to come to sign and they will explain.
Have asked our translator who is concerned , says its not standard and of concern.
I had nothing like that in my paperwork. However I had a very good Notaire who seemed to be more on my side than the house builder so it was HE who would not let me sign the first compromis because he was not happy with the wording and we had a meeting with the other party to discuss it face to face. This is what you should do, arrange a meeting with the Notaire and the other party as normal and thrash it out between you regarding the failure to pay/sell for both parties and the legal consequences of which there would be for the party who defaulted. Do not sign anything until you are certain all facts have been included and that your translator has completely understood, they may translate but do they understand the legalities? At the end of the day, the Notaire is a tax collector and has a legal obligation to make purchasers/sellers aware of their obligations so often a bit of threatening paperwork is to remind the parties of their obligations. As I said, get an appointment and sort it out face to face! You should also receive all the reports regarding the region, natural risks such as flooding, earth tremors etc, research into historic sites and so on, my paperwork is about 300 pages with all the info.
Hi Shib.a
Thanks for reply. We are happy to go and discuss but it seems notaire just thinks we do not understand . That translator will explain and we just sign.
We do not mind going but want time to understand and not feel pressured to sign with sellers standing there waiting.
I feel that they could have sent copy earlier and to send night before with no time to go through it.
Plus to me they seem to be doing contract for sellers though i know supposed to be impartial.
Oh well certaintly wont be today, plus our translator contacted a notaire Friend who said this wording not been used 25 years.
I saw a very similar question on Facebook this morning (perhaps it was youi) but now I canât find it. There were answers indicating that the clause in that post was standard in the case of a compromis being drafted by an immobilier and not by a notaire.
I do recall there was confusion about what that person was going to sign, and I canât make out from your post what you are âsupposed to sign todayâ.
Yes that would have been myself on Strictly legal and i did not explain well.
Initially we signed an offer for the house with the agent. All the offer included was names, address of the property, price offered etc and that it included agents fees. Next step would be compromis de vente.
The notaire set appointment and appointed a translator. We requested a meeting with her before signing asking to go through compromis , that we wanted en tontine and to discuss that. Plus any other clauses.
They just replied we could go through this on the day. I accept its done that way but honestly a 45 page document and in 1 hour or 2 if lucky you have to stop, query with translator that you understand , dispute it etc. Discuss if tontine the right way to purchase all with sellers sitting there.
Anyway they eventually sent a. draft last night ( appointment was 10.30am today and over an hour from where we are renting )
As i said initially Tony on strictly legal thought normal ( he assumed it was with agent promise de Aâchat) when i advised no its Compromis from Notaire he said not usual especially if we had not requested this .( The bit saying we and sellers x requested done under private deed ! Why ! And we understood the consequences. Well we do not .
So thats the position. We have advised we want the house but want a normal compromis not private contract.
I canât help with your specific query but, assuming that youâre the buyer, Iâd suggest that you should never feel railroaded and donât let them try to pressure you. Better to ensure that youâre completely happy before signing than to spend years regretting it later.
In our case, we made an offer on house and stood firm against the pressure only to find, during our pre-signing viewing, that significant cracks had developed since our first viewing which I presume was why they were in such a hurry. Iâm not suggesting that there is something underhand going on, it might simply be the agent trying to push it through and get their fees locked in, but just make sure that you are 100% content before you sign.
If its just the Compromis, you do have 10 days to pull out, I certainly did have that time period allowed but mine was a different case in that it was a new build and the builder and I met a few times at the Notaireâs office and thrashed out certain charges that he and not I was liable for. Its the Acte Authentique/de vente that is the legally binding paperwork.
I think youâre being quite reasonable to want to see and consider the compromis in advance.
My suggestion would be that you speak to the notaire and explain that you wouldnât feel comfortable doing what he (or she) proposes, and that you donât think he could fulfil his legal obligation to ensure you understand the document in such conditions.
I imagine the notaire is trying to speed things up, perhaps by taking a shortcut. Itâs more likely that he forgot to send you the compromis until late and is now covering up!
No matter. Assuming youâre happy with the translator, you could ask (and pay for) an extra meeting with her.
Donât forget you can, if you want, instruct your own notaire. It doesnât (shouldnât) cost any extra. That is also something you could mentionm when speaking to the notaire already appointed.
As always, especially in France, couch everything in super-polite terms and avoid like the plague any hint of an accusation of incompetence or the like. Youâd probably be far better sticking with the notaire already instructed but only if he is able to accommodate your âspecial needsâ as non-French speakers.
Its my understanding that whatever we sign in the compromis is what goes un the act. Yes i know 10 days ro pull out after signing but i feel thats unfair on everyone and wasting their time.
I can not understand why notaire can not do as you did and meet us to go through it all days before we need to do the signing. We would be quite happy to pay court appointed translator to come and do this.
Reading on it seems signing this as a private contract ( hence the later warning saying we are aware and still wish to proceed ) its not an authetic deed and will not be registered. So anything in it ie if buyer pulls out looks like we can not enforce anything.
I just do not understand why any seller would want to do a private act unless intending to pull out with no penalities.
I say this as i understand an offre de achat is binding on the seller ( cant pull out ). But we could.
So wondering if had a private offer for more and there way of getting out of the contract ? Who knows.
Thanks for reply John, glad you dodged a bullet. I dont think problems with the property.
I just am puzzled as to why they want a private contract.
Only reason i can think its apparently not binding as not authentic ? And therefore they can withdraw. , whereas the offer de achat is binding on them more than us.
Wondering if had a better offer and this is best way out.
Though if thats the case dont why Notaire just does not say ok, if you do not want to sign sale does not go ahead.
Personally⊠if I feel railroaded⊠I immediately put on the brakesâŠ
I would suggest that no-one signs anything which they do not fully understand and/or with which they are not in full agreementâŠ
The Notaire might well be prepared to discuss from A-Z on the day itself⊠but buying a house is not like buying a bag of veg .
Taking in/understanding all the implications of phrases/wording on a legal document ⊠is not always easy and certainly not to be rushed.
and a âthreatâ that the sale might no go ahead if the buyer âwobbles/worries/queriesâŠâ
is (for me) the sign that perhaps all is not necessarily as it should be⊠and the STOP light blazes in my brain.
If you are not happy make it known, during the meeting understand the implications and options then at the end if you are not happy with what is to be agreed to donât sign.
Indeed you do have 10 days cooling off period but to say its âjust the compromisâ is not good advice IMO.
The compromis is effectively the sale contract that is ratified on date of completion so it needs to be right from the outset rather than complications arising at the date of completion.
Hi Stella, thanks for responding. Yes i agree , we are still interested but need time and a clear explanation of why the seller wants the sale structured this way.
Thanks for replying. As i said we would prefer to have a meeting before signing to go through it all .
Much as Stella suggested i fell so many queries we need to be able to sit and discuss without the pressure of agents / sellers and signing.
If needed we are happy to pay fee fir translator/ interpreter.
sometimes, in the rush and stress of almost any official âmeetingâ ( especially in a foreign language) ⊠one can feel pressured⊠and end up agreeing with or to something which is not really clear⊠and only later think of the questions one should have asked⊠aaaargh⊠happened only the once⊠but that taught me to take my time⊠everytime.
Your phrase reminded me of something said in a Blevins webinar on buying a France property I watched the other day, which was -
If the agent fee is expressed as part of the advertised / sale price the notaire fee / percentage is calculated on that price.
If the agent fee is actually paid by the purchaser then the notaire fee / percentage is calculated on the sale price only.
I havenât seen that mentioned anywhere before and appreciate itâs not relevant to your specific query, hope you donât mind. I wonder if others have any knowledge of this.
Hope your purchase goes more smoothly going forward!
I said that because it is the first document and not the final binding one for which you have little chance of pulling out of. The compromis is the outline document for you to read through, mark out any errors or inclusions you wish to make and is not the final printed out documents. My compromis had a lot of scribbles from me on it regarding items I was not happy with or where I had found mistakes by the Notaire especially the actual address of the property and not the neighbour plus it had things like my children were also purchasers and their names were on it, but it was not so, only me!
