Pretty unlikely - it is clear from recent history that any concession you win to appease the rabidly Eurosceptic right wing they will never be appeased, they will just take the concession and demand more.
No that is very true and some of these issues need debating. However there are more moderate voices making similar arguments. Why not quote them?
The YouTube channel the Weidel speech is on is full of far right videos singing Le Pen’s praises amongst others.
Now I am NOT saying you agree with these but by quoting Weidel the danger is we legitimise more extreme parties.
Because I haven’t seen them. This item was sent to me and I thought valid points were made. It wouldn’t matter to me who said it.
That is how I feel too.
We all know that the EU needs reforming and with Brexit that has only underlined it.
The whole purpose of the EU in many ways was to stop a slide into war-mongering nationalism and fascism happening again. Now there are a flurry of populist far right anti EU parties springing up all over Europe. Encouraged by the likes of Steve Bannon, the ultimate aim of many of them is not the reform but destruction of the EU.
There was Tommy Robinson screaming in Parliament Square last Friday…
Rubbish Robert. Of course the EU like any political and economic entity is in need of continuous review and reform but to suggest it should engage in same to suit the semi detached UK which is not part of Schengen, not part of the euro and gets a thumping rebate very year is silly.
The UK is not part of
To be fair Paul, they are a bunch of fascists. The scales are dropping from my eyes in terms of fascism in the Tory party. Gauleiter Rees-Mogg is a Mosley in the making and Elizabeth Truss could well see herself as a less intellegent (read stupid) Unity Mitford. Bojo could be installed as a puppet. This whole right wing thing is gaining momentum. They feed on the disgruntled, disenfranchised and ill informed of which the UK has no shortage. We’re back to the thirties.
They probably are fascists. However, a fascist making a statement does not make the statement fascist. I can agree with what someone says without agreeing with their ideology.
There was a patch - say when the NF was lead by Jean-Marie Le Pen when far right parties held obviously extremest views - what was his policy for immigrants? Deport them and their offspring to the 3rd generation wasn’t it?
More modern incarnations have toned this down with good results at the polls, the message is more reasonable, nuanced, harder to argue with - but I don’t think the underlying sentiment has changed much.
Before agreeing with their arguments (or those of any politician) look through it, around it, fact check it and figure out the meaning behind it and only then decide if you agree with it.
And a fascist making a statement makes the statement fascist until proven otherwise.
Nope… I had no idea who the person was… I merely followed the statement which she read out… and I found one or two bits which matched some of my own thoughts…
and there is no way I am a fascist… neither before, nor after… so let’s knock that one on the head straight away…
I think some of what she says is seductive to some Brits as at a time when our credibility in the world stage is at stake she offers a narrative that appeals. Why punish the UK. Why not reform the EU instead. If only the EU had countenanced more of David Cameron’s Kipper demands…
There is a strong argument to be made for not punishing the UK.
Flexibility needs to be shown on both sides whilst not leading to the collapse of the EU. I know there are some cheerleaders on here for that. I am not very optimistic about what follows if that is the case. Putin will be rubbing his hands in glee.
As Paul said we need to fact check our sources and also think about what the underlying agenda is. In this case it is a Far right agenda with increasingly open links to the extreme right.
You posted a definition of fascism but fascism does not happen overnight. It can take the form of a slow erosion of rights and the normalisation of extreme view points.
Going forwards. I am in favour of a confirmatory vote on any deal but in absence of that it is a shame politicians could not get behind a customs union. I can’t help but think it will be a no deal and that will be terrible for everyone.
Frankly, I think this whole thing on the forum, is being blown out of all proportion. Is it still 1st April… ???
I do not need to check facts and sources…on a link which is offered here… unless I intend to act on whatever I have read or heard… good grief, I would soon tire of reading/listening to anything …
and, as anyone, who has sat through a selection of Party Political broadcasts in the UK, well knows … every single “speaker” (all Parties) offers something that folk can agree with… even though all the Parties will have very different aims and agendas…
Fair enough, before voting… one does investigate, weigh what is being said… etc etc…
But, for heaven’s sake… that same lady, reading a page from the Bible would not suddenly become a Christian… so let’s all cool down… just a little…
You remind me of Little Red Riding Hood in her encounter with the Big Bad Wolf, Stella!
“What big eyes you have, Grandmama!”
“All the better to see you with, my dear. Won’t you come a little closer?”
“What big white teeth you have, Grandmama!”
Propagandists always seed their mother-love-and-apple-pie narrative with poison, disguising its lethal bitterness.
Have no fear for me… Peter…
As I have said previously… I think we must still be suffering 1st April hangover…
Again… . this comment could apply to all and any of the Party Political Broadcasts that regularly roll out… (probably not just in UK either… )
In a nutshell you have just explained why social media magnifies, amplifies and extends the reach of fake news and extremist views - if we were in the habit of questioning these things all the time they would be stillborn. But people don’t, they just react to the headline and reach for the “share” button.
Scepticism is not just for when you vote, it’s an ability that you should exercise all the time.
At a rough guess I’d put your BP at around 166/134 mmHg, Paul, judging by your new florid fizzog.
A stroll in the woods and a nice cup of camomile tea, perhaps?
I did not reach for any share button… get off my case… please…
Er… I don’t want to get into any arguments and hoped to provide a balanced response. Clearly it has been taken the wrong way.
I apologise if I have upset you. I am not telling you or anyone else what to think. Seeing as we are dealing with a party with far right affiliations I was simply sounding a note of caution.
Only fascists recruit others to genocide in slow steps using concepts like honour, purity, loyalty, family, obedience, noble sacrifice, patriotism, and struggle to muffle their insistent drum-call to mass murder.