Was Mrs. Hussey really racist?

I recognise your name and remember your attitude from another place, and reading the above, have been confirmed in my memory. A sweeping, innacurate and even in itself racist, statement.

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You’d have to have been in the room at the time to know for sure. However, given the experiences many people go through, I tend to believe them when they call it out.

I have not one thimbleful of British heritage, but because of my colouration, no-one is ever going to question my nationality or entitlement to be in the UK. It must be extremely tedious and vexing for folk who have to put up with that nonsense on a regular basis.

“There are none so blind as those who will not see”

Watched Call the Midwife last night and it had part of the story about racism in the late 60s. One woman, who’s husband was out protesting against non Brits taking thier jobs, made racist comments about immigrants, resulting in her midwife walking out. She was then talking to someone else and it turns out her family were French silk making immigrants from 200 years before. She clearly didn’t pick up on the irony.

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Few do. Round here many, many of our neighbours are of Italian extraction (1st / 2nd generation) - and they are all right of Genghis Khan and want no incomers.

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And one of them was Samuel Courtauld who set up in business in Essex, starting a company that became a giant in the industry. The original company moved to Nottingham and gave me my first management role in the transport sector. :smiley:

It’s certainly sweeping, and I would agree that Brexit was largely an embodiment (and subsequent enablement) of racism in British society.

Is it fair to say “British in general […] are racists”? No I think not. I would say that there is a longstanding undercurrent of racism in Britain (and, yes, more so in England) which has been enabled and emboldened post Brexit. But the majority are not especially racist. Brexit presumably demonstrates that 48% do not harbour strong xenophobic views and we can assume that not all leavers were motivated by hatred of “forriners” - given that public opinion has swung firmly against Brexit (albeit by a small margin) I think we can safely say that the majority are NOT racist at present.

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I am reminded of Kwami Kwei-Armah, who changed his birth name from Roberts, as it was the name of a slave owner. I can understand why some might choose to do it.

I think that Brexit was perhaps motivated more by the desire for self-governance, “taking back control” from the seemingly undemocratic European institution, just as a successful Scottish referendum would be. Would that mean the Scots are racist?

Of course it wouldn’t because it’s only okay to slag off the English.:roll_eyes: But doesn’t it just come back to self-esteem? If you are happy in your own skin (sorry) who cares what people think or say as long as you’re not being physically attacked.

I’m afraid that this sort of talk (assuming you’re not being tongue-in-cheek, Captain Morgan: if you are, you need to work on your delivery!) contributed substantially to Brexit. Farage says racist things and so is probably a racist; my friend A was pro-Brexit but is by no means a racist, and nor are many others who were suspicious of the EU.

The rhetoric goes
you think differently from me
I don’t understand why you think like that
your opinions are not worth engaging with
you are not worth engaging with
you are not as worthy of respect as I am because of the way you think
I can be as rude as I like to you because you are not worthy of respect

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I thought Brexit was motivated by not wanting to comply with high EU standards, paying us pensions linked to EU levels, being able to sell us chlorinated chicken, etc, myself

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I think the tragedy these days is polarisation of opinion when in fact things are often much more nuanced. Was Mrs Hussey racist? Probably not, but she may be unconsciously biased, given her background - difficult not to be. She may also be a) slightly deaf given her age b) used to holding court, given her age/background c) not nuanced in her small talk, given her age/background d) genuinely interested in this person who is making a very loud statement about her “differentness” in the attire she is wearing and might have expected a very different answer, bearing in mind that this is a world where people arriving at the palace in strange attire usually are from strange places.

Was Ms Fulani racist? Probably not. That may sound like a strange question but often racism flows in more than one direction. Was Ms Fulani unconsciously biased? Possibly. She too may have been making profound (false) assumptions about the elderly (deaf?) white woman from the palace in front of her.

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Pretty well summed up I reckon @SuePJ :grinning:

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People were told that Brexit was about “taking back control” when in reality we never lost it. “Doing away with scrutiny” might have been more truthful - certainly any “control” was not for the common man to exercise.

In fact very few (none, really) of the things that were claimed as benefits of Brexit have come to pass - largely because they were mistaken at best and more probably out and out lies.

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All your post is interesting but I want to grab just one aspect. There is something quite intriguing in this.

As Lalla pointed out

Were we in the room listening, we may have heard just how, rather than what was said. In both directions. You know that slightly irritated tone that people can have? Not to mention the expression on their face.

Putting aside the issue of racist motivation, is it possible, in the way that sometimes women do, there was an unspoken game of one-upmanship, resentment or irritation that escalated with the conversation?

(Please try not to rapid fire at my saying this is a female sport! It is one of our many talents that we feel the vibes of someone as much as we hear them.)

This Palace tea party was a fairly austere event and a meeting of women from very different backgrounds. Would require more self control and reticence than either of the women of this story seem to have. A sort of class angst. I expect the critical moment of no return was when Lady Susan moved the hair off the name tag. From that there was an escalation.

Humans are humans and not all are perfect. Hindsight and hearsay are also not so fine things. We may say “I would never!” but who of us never, ever gets shirty with someone because we feel they are being rude / evasive / arrogant… It’s a sort of irritable verbal tango.

I wouldn’t want to squelch the conversation of racism in society but if I were writing a play …. “A handbag!
:face_with_monocle:

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Don’t know if it was claimed as a benefit but my son’s long time unemployed friend has a job now that the bus loads of eastern europeans have been taken out of the equation.

As you suggest, it would be useful to have been there… at the time… as things unfolded.
However, just thinking about things…

Visitors were given nametags… presumably to help folk know just who was who…
Had Ms Fulani worn her nametag so it could be read… the whole episode might have ended differently. In fact, it could be said to be more than a little surprising that whoever was “in charge” didn’t ensure that nametags were correctly visible.

Perhaps this whole thing was just an unfortunate happening… and such things can cause a lot of upset and uproar, often quite out of proportion to the thought/intention behind the action …

Incidentally, the gentleman living across the road , declared in a loud voice “I don’t like the English.”
This was when the Agent introduced us to him as “the Buyers” and thus his new neighours…

Does this make him racist… not in my view… just pig-ignorant to be making such sweeping statements … :roll_eyes: :rofl: 'cos he does like some of the English… he was just being… rude 'cos we were buying and he’d missed his chance.

Really Stella it was the other womans fault for having her name tag covered. That statement somes it up for me .Justifying something because it was someone elses fault.