"We don't do that in France" - Is it true?

General Discussion
41

It's a very difficult position to be in, but really little different to when the property prices crashed in the early 1990s in the UK.

The boom and bust then, comparative to today, turned round very quickly - taking the whole of the UK into consideration (although it didn't affect Scotland because the bust came before they boomed!).

We didn't lose out, not in equity, but we certainly lost out on the interest rate situation despite the fact we didn't overstretch ourselves when taking out the original mortgage. But ours took - I think 3 years to sell and we have a grand total of 5 viewings.

During that period, when we couldn't sell, we went to look at a variety of properties that I would have killed to buy and the prices were ridiculously low. I think one was around the 30k mark - asking price. A farm house that needed renovation in a beautiful setting. They couldn't sell it. Nothing was moving. Buyers market.

I saw that farmhouse sold a couple of years ago for nigh on 750k.

What you have to do in such situations, is forget what you paid for it. Forget what it has cost you in renovations. Forget about it as being an investment and consider how long you have spent in it as a home (if indeed you have)

Consider that you bought at the wrong time and at the wrong price.

Then look at what IS selling. Similar properties in your region. Look at the price and target accordingly.

I'm not being cruel, nasty or hard - I've just been in a similar situation.

It may be that in France property prices suddenly shoot up. But not unless they free up lending in France like they did in the UK, because that was the only thing that made that market boom. They may, of course, discover oil, gold, or whatever in your region, but that too is somewhat unlikely.

The other options are doing exactly what the OP is doing and investigating other possibilities.

Remember that a lot of people who are in France today, came here back in the early 1990s precisely because they lost everything in the UK due to the boom and bust.

42

Okay, I can pick it up on the French websites but what exactly is a Vente a Terme?

43

You don't know what we paid of course. The 'value' as it was has at least halved but it is not the land here Ken. 2.5k per hectare if you can sell it is normal, perhaps 3k if you have a CU. Ours is the value of house and buildings but not the 5 or 6k of land. As Debra says, it is a sweeping statement.

44

We are in the advantage position of having bought from somebody, although we did not know it until well after, days away from repossession of his entire farming land and buildings. He sold this and another lot for enough to finish the new bungalow and keep a field or two. As little as we have done it is one of those rare things in that it would sell for more than we paid, albeit the entire investment would not be retrieved. However, our attitude is that it is only a place to live and whether we gained or lost we come out of it with enough to eat for a while at the very least. We are not business-minded people and in an absolute corner would pack up bags and move to South America where we both worked and lived at different times but would be well received. The materialism is immaterial.

45

It is WORTH two million in terms of the goodwill alone. The people are simply too old and getting frail to keep running it but can afford to let it go so that they can retire and move away to where they now want to be. They slapped the price down in desperation in order to 'escape'.

Having lived outside Newmarket for three decades within the horse oriented world with a polo pony breeder/trainer neighbour, several trainers, stable boys/girls and a couple of jockeys in the village. Nearby there were umpteen studs. As a parish councillor I was often in them when we had planning applications to examine. I also ride myself, my father wanted me to be apprenticed to be a jockey, from when I was just under eight until I left home we were spitting distance from Epsom, Banstead and those racing industry areas. I escaped that fate but with a lot of work with horses behind me.

I am not a professional but one thing I have learned is that one can never compare anything living, animal or vegetable, with inanimate objects such as a house. So I do not see the point you are making. OK, there may be an earthquake, plane may crash or a bomb be pushed through your door but you still have the ground your house is built on. That keeps a value and can be reconstructed with insurance payouts. A carcass does not compare, it cannot be capitalised on.

46

My OH sells part time to augment our income that has been totally undermined by the economic crisis then my two years of health problems. She is selling places at the moment, many other agents are not as lucky. She, despite being very part time (right now she is half way round the world with 'proper' work) manages to be one of the agency's successes at present. The market is on the one hand saturated, on the other property values have fallen sharply and are still going down in much of rural/provincial France (and several other countries nearby) but more so the cost of renovations has gone up a lot, more materials than labour costs at that. We have quotes on a roof that were €8000 five years ago that we should have had done, but now with quotes of around €18000 we cannot afford it. The people we are going to are not trying it on because through the house sales where roofs have needed to be done and she has seen these people are good, they are recommended on. They have even offered 'commissions' on the jobs they have picked up that have been refused and their quotes for us are between 2 and 4k cheaper than other people!

So it is not just the 'damned fool' expatriates who are in a mire but also French sellers. She has actually more French vendors and buyers than expats anyway. One of her colleagues sold the château near Sarlat worth over a million for €50k, it is not a myth at all. The owner was so close to the hussiers turning up to turf her out and repossess that she let it go. There is a Michelin listed hotel and restaurant on the market worth a couple of million that is going for half a million. Now after two years one potential buyer and Thailand and a tentative in China are looking at it seriously. It has not been viewed through any agency for over a year.

However, the house price inflation in the UK has nothing to do with property value at all. Nor is it any longer to do with location particularly. It is banking led, 125% mortgages are the norm, 150% fairly easy to find. The amount a house is worth is not the same as the money involved. The LSE and Institute for Fiscal Studies have both done thorough studies with very well written and explained reports over the last couple of years and the projections are not good. Sooner or later the 'bubble' will burst and a lot of people and financial institutions will go down with it. That is patently clear from what they are reporting, striking given how pro-banking the latter is. So really do not look at France and anywhere else for guidance, the equation does not work.

47

Anne, I was intrigued about this so I asked my French husband last night and he too said "We don't do that in France"! Seems strange ;)

48

Oh, I see , thank you for clarifying. So it's not that agent commerciale is code for absolutely useless, just that they are less qualified and /or experienced? I shall await Simon's explication.

49

Simon has his own carte professionnelle rather than trading under someone elses (agent commercial). From memory you need at least 8 years agency experience or a law degree to get your own carte professionnelle but I'll leave Simon to reply more fully ;-)

50

Simon, do you have a mailing list of properties? interested serious buyer.

51

Hello Simon, Sorry to ask what might be an obvious question, but when you say you're an estate agent "a real one not an agent commercial", what is the difference? Does it mean you have insurance, qualifications or some thing else? And what's the down side of these agent commercial peeps?

Thanks, Angela

52

I have a superb account manager. I went into the bank unannounced to pay in a cheque last week. She saw me, remembered my name, offered me a seat and coffee and then, because she likes to but knows she does not need to, talked to me in English. I was only paying in a cheque but she asked if I was happy with the service, my account and did I have suggestions for branch improvement. Some of them are very enterprising and probably ambitious. She is under 35 and has been there for four years, I expect (even hope for her) she will be promoted and disappear soon (also a pity because if I was 30 years younger temptation would get the better of me, she is a cracker!).

I have done the best training with my doctor. He has been thoroughly inculcated with the knowledge that an academic research needs to know everything plus more. He sits at his computer and reads out the notes and reports from specialists I have seen, explains every treatment he prescribes, listens to and then allows for my reasons for preferring other treatments, medication and so on but is never made to feel inferior (I know nothing about medicine but bluff after looking on line). It can be done, so this being treated like a conveyor belt product is not necessary.

53

"like"!

54

So, the bottom line is, better a “can’t do” French banker that a “can do” US one?

55

I must say Ken I find your approach very clever and you should keep doing it.

56

i recently exhibited my work in a bare to the bones shed in cestas ! as did about 10 others scupture etc just needs a roof really

57

Unfortunately, that won't work - it has been gutted to the bare stones.

58

also have you any arts groups near you you could offer them the opportunity to exhibit for free in the space take some commissions on sales and get a lot of people through the door with different ideas on interiors etc !! maybe get some takers !

contact a local art college or architects college see if they will take the project on as part of a course !! just an out of the box idea

59

Les Encheres-Publiques.com

Les Encheres-Publiques auctions of property in France (some areas) is a website that has lists of properties put up for auctions by notaires. While the majority are estate or bancruptcy sales, I believe (not sure of this) that any notary may list a property with them??? I somehow got myself on the mailing list other wise I would never have heard of it.

60

Kwashie - That is what I am doing at present, but so far, no luck.

Simon - I will send a friend request right away, and thank you.

Victoria - I had not thought of that one, and it is very interesting. I know of a retired mason who might be interested, at least to talk. Thank you.