Never know whether to say Vous or Tu when talking to the French.i feel uncomfortable saying tu my elders,…I must say there aren’T many left now.it is so much more rational in english. What do you do?
Learning 'usted, ustedes, le, te, vosotros, ti & tú' is actually incredibly difficult in South America because in one country they only use usted/ustedes and another is a tú/te, vosotros country - and people think French is difficult!
no, it doesn't bother me that much, but it just aint right! it's nothing personal - they do it to everyone and it gets everyone else's backs up too. I don't get uptight about it, neither does my OH. It goes with those people who don't say SVP etc. manners maketh man and all that ;-)
Like Usted in Spanish which was drummed into us at school (& always calling people Don whatnot and Dona can't do a tilde) but now just makes people think you're a Franquista relic...
On getting 'tutoied' by younger(?) I'm assuming second generation Arabs. I once heard that exact thing happen at Virgin Megastore in Marseille (obviously a while ago) and the sales clerk in question just said something like, "You know, you just said 'tu' to me and it's not a polite way to talk." The young man said he was sorry and the conversation continued normally--ie with no one getting huffy. Maybe it's worth a try if it really bothers you.
Plus Ticino in Switzerland, although voi is slowly fading even there. My OH only uses it to people like the specialist at the hospital father-in-law sees, but on the street never.
si, è cosi in italia! but did you know that Mussolini wanted to change to using voi as the formal form as is still done in parts of southern Italy and was the norm pre WW1...!
I lived in Kreuzberg, in Berlin, for the best part of 18 years on and off and much like Londoners, the dialect, 'wat ick ook spreche, weest De?' does not really have Sie in it. My point is that all countries have dialects, second languages (France actually has seven languages within its borders, then umpteen patois, dialects and so on).
Just realised I may have confused would-be Italians - I must have been tired when I wrote my post. Over there, of course, they don't use the second person plural (vous/voi) as the respectful form of tu but the third person singular instead - lei. Took me a while to get my head round it until someone pointed out that the servants in English period dramas use it all the time when talking to their 'betters', as in: "And what would the gentleman/her ladyship like for tea?"
Depends where you were in Germany. Waschechter Berliners nearly all have short versions, nicknames based on fore or surname, so that Gerhardt is usually Gert, Bernhardt is Berndt or Berni, Joachim is Achim, my friend whose family name is Damerow is Dammi, etc. Likewise Dutzen is normal and Sie is for policemen, public office holders and the like, thus formal and official occasions. All countries have exceptions, usually from one place to another within that country.
As somebody with a doctorate I am never Mr in the Anglo-saxon or Germanic world, but people who do not know me will assume it is Mr, but will do the same with a Sir or Lord whoever. However, it is accepted as normal that when one speaks to somebody such as a client, patient or the like that one uses forenames after a few times together. Mr, Mrs and other titles are diminishing. The tu form is used almost universally amongst young people and as they grow older an ever increasing proportion of them will continue to use modified language so that in perhaps two generations vous will be less common and used for particular situations such as very formal and official occasions.
Do the bit with asterisks with a Scots accent and my mother (un)surprisngly knew much the same way of addressing me ;-)
Nice One Brian :-) My mother always called me Victor when she was mad at me. That was quite often & It was usually followed by "you bl**dy so**ing bu**ger" .
Excellent Veronique. That pretty much sums up my experience over the last 11 years. As there is no chance my rubbish accent will ever improve I shall rest content in the knowledge that people will never expect me to correctly T & V them :-)
As a matter of interest I note that Andrew always addresses you by the diminutive of Veronique. I assume this is OK & not disrespectful !! Complicated innit?
It sums up my experience in France, too
perfectly summed up, Véro ;-)
Victor, Victor isn't the correct grammar 'have sex with everybody'? ;-)
Vic - nobody will be bothered about your tutoiement or vouvoiement because you are foreign & very obviously didn't grow up here and are N. European. French people don't expect you to know the difference and take it for granted you'll get it wrong & should you get it right they'll just take that for granted as well, so I really shouldn't worry about it if you are foreign and esp if you have an accent, people will just be delighted you make the effort to speak French & to hell with tu/vous existential anguish!
We get riled about being tutoyé by people who should know better eg French speakers in a formal/semi formal situation (eg the yoof who come into Andrew's shop & tutoie him are definitely showing over-familiarity & lack of respect, I imagine your old boules-playing friends & neighbours wouldn't like it either).
Exactly!!! "it doesn't seem right not doing so!" So it's a feeling, not a written in stone thing. I'm having enough trouble filling my "linguistical toolbox" with things like verbs & nouns necessary to communicate with folk who don't care how I address them. I need a few more years to get around to the feeling thing but fear that if I worry too much about how to address people it might curtail this. Don't get me started on the need to have a sex for everything. :-)
:-O
;-)
now i never said i think we should do so, just that it doesn't seem right not doing so! it also addq another tool to the linguistical toolbox ;-)