What do people in this forum think are the countries who enjoy the most individual liberties and freedom at the current moment in history?
France
UK
Australia
Canada
United States
Personally, from what I have gathered over time, I would put the USA at #1, France at #2 and the other 3 at the bottom (all pretty much equally oppressed by their governments and getting worse).
I had always planned on returning to my home country of Canada to retire, but because of the freedoms of citizens being slowly eroded in Canada over the past 10 years, Iāve changed my mind. I believe that France is the only country besides the USA that maintain an acceptable level of individual freedoms (for now) due to their history of conservatism and strong support of freedom of the individual, which I believe is closely tied to being a Republic as opposed to a Democracy.
What are your thoughts on where each are today and where each are headed? Is sovereignty truly under attack in favour of authoritarianism and collectivism in the West?
What do you mean by āindividual freedomsā? I would include freedom of access to affordable healthcare as a valuable individual freedom, for example, but Iām not sure you would.
Not sure of the definition of western, but surely if you want individual freedoms and liberties then move to somewhere like Somalia? Yes it does now have some form of government but still pretty anarchistic.
Personally I am happy to swap complete individual freedoms and liberty for a well run country with nationwide access to health and education, and good track record on equality and human rights. So the US would be rather near the bottom. Scandinavian countries up around the top.
As a committed for life French resident I take exception to France being lumped together with the USA. France is a democratic republic, the two are not mutually exclusive, but the USA is not a democracy. Trump won his only presidency despite garnishing less votes than his opponent, unlike Macron, who actually got a majority.
The only freedom American citizenās really have is being able to buy, and use to deadly result, weapons of war, banned in private hands almost everywhere else.
I lived in Australia many years ago and always thought that my life there enjoyed the ultimate freedom, things may have changed, but as to the UK it shouldnāt be anywhere near that list in terms of democracy.
Very interesting input so far! So how would you personally (without being told by a website) rank each of the countries in terms of freedoms and liberties of the invdividual, based on your own experience/knowledge/conclusions?
My ranking is:
USA
France
Canada/UK/Australia
I fully realise that freedom nowhere equals safety. Iām not talking about safety, Iām talking about freedom.
There is a well known quote that (Iām quoting loosely) says āAnyone who would exchange freedom and liberty for safety will end up with none of them in the endā.
Definition of western is what our civilization was built on: The enlightenment - free market economy, law and order, free speech, freedom of association and freedom of press. Without all of those things, western civilization wouldnāt exist today.
Not speaking for @JaneJones, but perhaps she enjoys living in a country in which her vote actually counts? Rather than one that disenfrachises its citizens of the nevertheless often meaningless vote that they were, as citizens, entitled to.
I would certainly pay more to live in a free country than to live via government handouts (which can be given and taken away at will) in a communist country.
The funny thing is, Canada today has become both more expensive to live in and has less freedom than France.
But in America all citizens (even the poor) are guaranteed the opportunity to become rich - aka the American dream. There are no laws barring any citizen from succeding (regardless of sex, race, religion or anything else), if they work hard enough - there are countless examples throughout history.
The problem today in America is the encrosching socialism that inevitably removes any will to work hard and succeed, because they can survive without doing so, thanks to the people who do actually work.
Iām not lumping France in with the US. I believe to have understood that the US founding fathers based their Constitution and Bill of Rights on the French system - with certain changes that certainly sets it apart in terms of individual freedoms.
I would be much happier if my home country of Canada had adopted the French system instead of the UK system, which is a disaster in my opinion. Individual rights really donāt have a chance under a Parliamentary Democracy. Itās arguably akin to Mob Rule.
Just out of interest @KwakeCanuckInFrance, which are the laws in France or even the UK which actually forbid you from becoming rich, if you have the talent, opportunity and desire?
I suppose it depends on how we determine and the priorities of personal āfreedomā.
I lived three very happy years in Singapore. Unilateral freedom of speech was not permitted but then a lot of words under that banner are in reality hate speech anyway, a path to trouble.
Tight political and social controls but you could walk down absolutely any street at any hour of the day or night wearing a gold watch and diamonds, and know that no one would rob you or attack out of envy.
Geographically a bit claustrophobic and year round sweaty but for me feeling safe is an ultimate priority in this life.
Well, in answer to your question I would ask you: Would you rather allow the government to control all citizensā health care knowing that it would only take one corrupt āleaderā to take over that control at some time in the future, effectively giving that individual the power to stop providing it to any citizen who disagrees with them poiticially?
What is more secure long-term, private sector healthcare who are in it for the profit, or government healthcare who are in it for the control?
The French are known to be conservative leaning, in their population (at least the classic one, not counting the 3rd world immigrants whoāve since arrived) as well as their government (who are supposed to represent the people).
Thatās why things take so long to change in France in comparison to more left-leaning countries. They understand that if something is working well, it should not be changed just for the sake of changing it due to the current trend or emotional pleas.
Thatās what true conservatism is: Defending good, solid, successful ideas against new, radical, dangerous ideas that are pushed by the progressive types.
