As a means of identifying one from another when the name is not known. Which is why I mentioned the very tall one, the laughing dancing one, and the one who is here at the moment who is deaf and the only one who wears a mask. I know all their names now but before I did I had to diffrentiate by physical characteristics. How else can you do it? In the current debate about this Hester person he may merely have been struggling to avoid being labelled racist and, in doing so, he has brought the very thing he feared, down on his head. He could be an out and out Nazi for all I know, I am just trying to explain that what he said is open to interpretation and should not, on its own, be subject to a racist accusation.
Do you remember btw, that one of the accusations levelled at me in another forum, now defunct, and which caused my banning, was an accusation of anti-semitism after I had criticised Israel. The numpty couldnāt distinguish between Arab and Jewish Semites, and Jews and Israelis.
As I child, we were taught that everyone should at all times take pause and responsibility for everything we say or write. This has become even more important in these times of verbal diarrhoea on social media. Defamation is a dangerous, and now a highly litigious game
A is liable for saying anything to C about B which would be apt to make the average citizen think worse of the latter.
ā Tony Weir, Tort Law p.162
Iām listening to James OāBrien on LBC (although Iām about an hour behind the live show) and heās just pointed out that Frank Hester has not apologised for being racist and misogynistic. Heās apologised for being rude. And the Conservative politicians on TV and in the press today have said that thatās sufficient.
It seems weāve identified what the level of tolerance is within the Tory party towards abhorrent comments. You can be a racist as long as you bung them Ā£10M beforehand.
I suspect the rude fellow is going for the āHonest Opinionā defence - This defence arises if the defendant shows that the statement was a view that a reasonable person could have held, even if they were motivated by dislike or hatred of the plaintiff. The honest opinion defence (formerly the fair comment defence) is sometimes known as āthe criticās defenceā as it is designed to protect the right of the press to state valid opinions on matters of public interest such as governmental activity, political debate, public figures and general affairs.
Presumably he hasnāt apologised for being racist because he does not consider what he said racist. To talk about another race in the context of how difficult it is to do so without attracting such an accusation is not, in itself, racist.
For those who havenāt seen a more full background to this subject, hereās the article that appeared on the Guardian website on Monday evening, 11/03/2024.
Are you really suggesting someone saying the following isnāt a racist and a misogynist?
The Guardian has learned of a 2019 meeting at TPPās headquarters in which Hester spoke about an executive from another organisation, saying: āSheās shit. Sheās the shittest person. Honestly I try not to be sexist but when I meet somebody like [the executive], I just ā¦
āItās like trying not to be racist but you see Diane Abbott on the TV and youāre just like, I hate, you just want to hate all black women because sheās there, and I donāt hate all black women at all, but I think she should be shot.
ā[The executive] and Diane Abbott need to be shot. Sheās stupid ā¦ If we can get [the executive] being unprofessional we can get her sacked. Itās not as good as her dying. It would be much better if she died. Sheās consuming resource. Sheās eating food that other people could eat. You know?ā
No, I am not. I am only talking about the specifics of what was said, as highlighted above. And it is difficult, there is no way round, as my experience with my brown armed friend shows. I wouldnāt make that joke again to a person of African heritage (see how I have to struggle to avoid one word?) for fear of it being misinterpreted, but I wouldnāt hesitate to use the same joke to a white friend who has much browner arms than me.
Not all Black people are African . I actually feel his stony response was more that he has a problem. I donāt think any of my Black friends would have bridled like that.
I donāt know where youāre getting this fromā¦
To talk about another race in the context of how difficult it is to do so without attracting such an accusation is not, in itself, racist.
Whilst saying a female executive at another company was shit, he saw Diane Abbott on TV and said, āItās like trying not to be racist but you see Diane Abbott on the TV and youāre just like, I hate, you just want to hate all black women because sheās there, and I donāt hate all black women at all, but I think she should be shot.ā
To me, it appears he was saying Diane Abbott should be shot because sheās a black woman, and she makes him want to hate all black women.
Iāve not seen anywhere that he was talking about not being able to criticise someone for fear of being called a racist. Can you share where you saw that?
This whole arguement going round and round in circles is precisely what I am talking about, semantics and interpretation. Your interpretation of what was meant is different from mine.
It appears to me that he was frustrated in wanting to criticise another woman because felt he could not because of the possibility of a racist accusation against him. He then likend it to criticising Abbott for being stupid I suspect, and he hated the fact that she personified his problem in that respect simply because she was black and a woman. Thus he was similarly restrained by fear of accusation. He seems to emphasise that when he says ā I donāt hate all black women at all,ā In other words he doesnāt hate them but hates the fact that he canāt criticise some of them.
One thing is plain to me, we are not going to agree on this.
I think that all of this is just making it more difficult to integrate.
It is like anything Woke, no criticism of anyone elseās point of view is valid and is increasingly attracting personal danger.
Universities should be for broadening the mind, not places for indoctrination.
Agreed. And listening to the number of black callers to James OāBrien over the past couple of days who say they donāt feel British because of the overt racism and bigotry that is tolerated - and increasingly voiced - by some MPs, we are not alone. Iām glad you agree with me that the use of racist language is intolerable in an inclusive society.
This has become even more important in these times of verbal diarrhoea on social media. Defamation is a dangerous, and now a highly litigious game
. I actually feel his stony response was more that he has a problem. I donāt think any of my Black friends would have bridled like that.