Why, if you live in France, did you vote for Brexit?

brexit

(Manon kit) #213

That’s what people are saying.


(Manon kit) #214

My experiment?


(Manon kit) #215

It means control.


(Martin Cooper) #216

Susan,

In your everyday life, what have you lost control of since been part of the EU?

Martin


(Lee Bentley) #217

She doesn’t need to, she suggested you do your own research if only to counter her claims. Its not hard is it.


(Manon kit) #218

Thank you you’re a gentleman.


(Coralyn Bell) #219

http://www.euexit.com/ http://eutruth.org.uk/ a couple of non political sites that may or may not interest you


(Coralyn Bell) #220

Have left a couple of sites for your perusal, however, I would be very happy to hear about all the so called benefits the UK has received for being part of the EU…and the benefits for EU citizens, as poverty even among the working, is spiralling out of control within Europe!


(anon88888878) #221

Control of what? What is it that you don’t you have control over as a UK resident?


(anon88888878) #222

So Coralyn says she voted for Brexit because of -

  • being forced to scrap the £ and use the €
  • paying for a European army
  • continuing to have unlimited immigration
  • being governed by a bunch of ‘unelected’ people
    and that…
  • they would have bled us dry

Well - I’ve done my own research and I can’t find any evidence to support and of these wild allegations. So yes @Lee_Bentley it is hard. I’m simply asking @somnus (Coralyn) to help me out - she seems unable to do so - just like all Brexit supporters. Yawn, yawn.


(anon71231711) #223

It’s probably been said before on this thread, but maybe it needs saying again - I think part of the fundamental problem is that the UK has never done anything (AFAIK) towards raising public awareness about positive benefits of being in the EU, and the UK press generally focuses on the negative. In other countries it’s different, for instance the France the government has set up various websites so that folks here can find out about and appreciate the opportunities and the assistance France gets from the EU and feel more involved in it, eg http://en.europe-en-france.gouv.fr/Europe-gets-involved , And the French media regularly report on EU discussions and decisions, even when France isn’t directly affected - such as the discussions about possible sanctions against Poland, what to do about Italy’s immigrant problems, etc. I’m not sure which is cause and which is effect - is the mistrust a result of the lack of awareness, or is awareness blocked out because of mistrust - but I am convinced that this disaffection / lack of understanding what the EU is about / feeling of alienation has a lot to do with the “us and them” stance and could have been avoided if the UK had taken a more active interest in the EU from the start. But it didn’t, and now it’s too late, and that’s why regretfully I accepted that Brexit could probably have been for the best if it had been handled well. Trouble is, it isn’t being - because it’s now becoming painfully obvious that the reason very little information or clarification about the EU ever got percolated down to Mr & Mrs Bloggs, is that it never properly percolated into the heads of those that should have been explaining it, and who are now negotiating Brexit.


(anon88888878) #224

Sure, together with a couple of downsides of Brexit! :slight_smile:

  • Membership has boosted trade with access to a $19.6 trillion a year Single Market of 743m people
  • The EU has helped open global markets to UK firms
  • Membership has increased flows of investment into the UK
  • Free movement of labour has broug­­­­ht benefits and employment to the UK economy - specifically in those areas viewed as ‘undesirable’ by the indigenous population.
  • The freedom to live, work and retire anywhere in the EU
  • More robust consumer protection laws
  • The UK’s net budgetary contribution is a small net cost relative to the benefits - 50.6% of UK imports come from the EU with exports from the UK to the EU amounting to 45.1% of all exports.
  • The UK will not automatically retain its current access to the EU market upon exit, it all needs to be renegotiated
  • Britain’s established markets, including Europe, are likely to be crucial for some time to come
  • Overall, business (CBI) believes that leaving the EU would be bad for them and bad for Britain
  • The EU (excluding the UK) has a 743m population, compared to the UK’s 65 million, and its economy is almost seven times the size of the UK’s.
  • The UK economy has just fallen to the bottom of the EU growth league (Eurostat / 1st quarter 2017)
  • The UK is more dependent on the EU for its trade than the EU is on the UK. Around half of the UK’s total trade is with the EU, while just 11% of EU trade is with the UK
  • And of course - reciprocal healthcare agreements.

I could go on but I’m getting bored now.

So - could we please have some of the reasons why on earth UK immigrants in France voted for Brexit - backed up with facts if at all possible - just for once - in fact just one fact would be good. Do remember we’ve already covered off boat building :slight_smile:


(Coralyn Bell) #225

I have never said that I am anti Europeans as a people…I don’t want to live in America so does that make me anti American with your stupid comment.


(Coralyn Bell) #226

Show me the evidence…and don’t quote the Guardian!


(Coralyn Bell) #227

Electing those in control…not possible when part of the EU, in fact may as well make our Members redundant1


(anon71231711) #228

I would add to Simon’s list the massive amount of EU funding that was pumped into regeneration when areas of the UK, like Sheffield, were in a sorry state after the coal mining industry died. The difference this made to quality of life in those areas is immense. Plus the many other EU funded projects that are ongoing which the places concerned are now worried will grind to a halt after Brexit because the UK government won’t step in and continue to support them.

Whilst having quick google to find figures for regeneration in South Yorkshire, this piece from 2013 caught my eye - http://sheffieldcityregion.org.uk/2013/07/fighting-for-a-fair-deal-from-europe/ - Sheffield asking the EU to make the UK government give it a fair piece of the cake when distributing the money the EU had allocated to the UK, seems to be a certain irony there :wink: we want our elected UK govt in control surely, how can those unelected bureaucrats have any concept of what’s right and fair? This article mentions £750m in the 1990s, another £820m in the 2000s, turning a wasteland into an inspiring environment, creating employment, giving people hope and a future where before they had none (or should I say “didn’t have any” :wink: ) , but I guess people aren’t important.


(Sandy Hewlett) #229

Coralyn, I wouldn’t bother replying. Simon’s looking for an argument and you and I are just feeding it. If you present any facts they still won’t be right, or acceptable, or justified. And he will keep on asking till kingdom come because he’s not open to a different point of view, not even a teensy bit. No doubt this will provoke more pompous “come on, convince me” verbosity. Not our job … he can go out and research it himself. But meanwhile he might stop trying to bully people off the board for having an opinion which dares to differ from his own…


(anon88888878) #230

The Guardian??? The stats are from the CBI - just have a look! :slight_smile:


(anon88888878) #231

You voted to leave the EU not the US!


(anon88888878) #232

I don’t want you to reply Sandy! I would however like Coralyn to answer just one of my questions. I’ve answered hers after all.

ps - just to be clear …you’ve accused me of bullying? Please provide examples (just as soon as you can) as that is a very hurtful, defamatory and serious allegation.