“Come on England”
England?? It isn’t a football match you know, come on England indeed, pfffffff. Come on the United Kingdom if you must…
But what about Scotland and Northern Ireland, which both voted - in every single constituency in the case of Scotland - to remain within the EU?
(And what about Wales, which after 40 years of being a net beneficiary of EU funding is now expecting Westminster to give them the same amount of money, which isn’t going to be happening).
Huh??
Firstly ‘Luvvie’ is a Northern colloquialism which I use all the time - being a Northerner. However, I don’t mean it to cause offence so will stop using it on SFN immediately ( I have edited the ‘offending’ posts - I think I got em all ). My preemptive apologies to the ladies - although I would add I also use it for men in normal parlance!!! 
Lee - again that is a very serious allegation you have made about me bullying. Please can you give me an example. Please don’t tell me its just because you don’t like what I have to say or dare to disagree.
I take insults directed at me on the chin e.g.
and…
Possibly enough for one day but the issue has yet again managed to divert us from the topic of the discussion which still remains unanswered
Hi Coralyn,
Thanks for the reply.
We elect our MP’S (which I’m sure you know) which has powers to shape or stop EU laws. (Lower House)
The council of Ministers are people who have been elected by citizens from us/other EU countries. (Upper House)
The EU Commissioner are also elected by the Council of Ministers, which run the Commission (EU Civil Service)
Democracy can means different things to different people, but to me, this system is more democratic than The UK, which has unelected House of Lords and our Head of State (accident of birth)
Martin
For your perusal from a variety of sources… BTW my decision to vote Brexit was unselfish (purely thinking of my grandchildren) and I genuinely did carry out a massive amount of research…the decsion was not made either lightly or on a whim
being forced to scrap the £ and use the €:
paying for a European army:
continuing to have unlimited immigration:
EU rules allow unlimited numbers to cross the Channel, of course, which Cable acknowledges puts pressure on low-skilled wages and social housing.
being governed by a bunch of ‘unelected’ people
and that…
http://www.democraticaudit.com/2016/06/23/is-the-eu-really-run-by-unelected-bureaucrats/
they would have bled us dry:
Not the same ase liking or disliking Europeans…I do not like the concept of the EU
And there we have it - the power of the press!
Thanks for making clear your decision making process @somnus - at last!
Fine! Good reason to leave it then!
(‘‘Exactly what I am trying to do…sell up and move back’’)
How very, very sad…
Just for info… I’ve been pretty devastated by the two accusations of bullying made against me on this thread today. It’s pretty much knocked me for six and I’ve asked those involved (by private message) to either substantiate their accusations or withdraw them publicly.
I do hope they respond but so far nothing which is a great shame.
It would be laughable but for the fact that some folks actually believe it! Crazy stuff…
I’m happy to reply. Bullying can take many forms, including sexist language. You’ve referred me a couple of times as “luvvie” when addressing my point of view. A nice subtle-little put-down. And then you say it’s a good old northern term you use all the time. I don’t read every Survive France post but I’ve never seen you use it when replying to a man, but feel free to correct me. No, I’m not thin-skinned but subtle digs like that can be classed as bullying behaviour, designed to inhibit the other person from replying. It certainly wouldn’t be tolerated in an work environment. By the way, you say you’ve edited out the “luvvie” references but last time I looked the two references were still there. I hope this has clarified your request.
Not really, no Sandy - you’ve made me feel even worse now but, it feels like that’s been your aim all along.
I’ve tried to search and remove all instances of the word ‘luvvie’ in my responses to you. I honestly had no idea the use of that word could be so offensive and even construed as bullying. As I said earlier - pretty devastating.
Anyway - I think it’s probably best if I close off this channel of ‘entertainment’ and diversion - it’s served me well through a very difficult year. But, if I’m offending people, then it’s time to duck out. For that I’m truly sorry.
I’ll leave you all to it - so , have fun and I hope Brexit works out for you whichever side of the fence you’re on! 
Hang on Simon, do you mean you’re checking out of this discussion, or out of SFN? If it’s the latter, please don’t!
Bullying is grim but so is accusing people of bullying and playing the victim, which is another more insidious sort of bullying as far as I can see.
Surely we can all rise above both of those behaviours?
I have answered Simons PM with an explanation and so has Sandy, so hopefully that will be the end of the matter. Please don’t come into this discussion saying the victims are also guilty of bullying by complaining, you’re not helping matters with that accusation.
Just had a look at that link, was that put up as a joke?
I rather liked the one about the Freemasons
Seriously though, this sort of rubbish was pushed in the referendum and people swallowed it hook line and sinker, understandably so because to debunk each of the points requires analysis and counter example and intellectual effort - you’ve lost your audience even before you’ve had time to draw breath and say “Well, actually…”. The campaigns were fought badly on both sides - the Remain crowd concentrating almost on how much we would all be punished (higher taxes) etc if we left and the Leave crowd divided their time between lying about the benefits of leaving (extra money for the NHS), whipping up xenophobia and invoking visions of Empire with Britain commanding the Waves once again.
My big worry is not that we could not possibly be better off out of the EU (I think it will be very damaging but I digress) but that it is manifestly obvious that the current, weak UK government does not have a clue what it wants to aim for or achieve in negotiations because of all the internecine battles within. I’m starting to think Private Frazer is right.
Dear James,
I voted to leave the EU for the purpose of maintaining the sovereignty of the UK as an independant country. I see the EU moving inexorably, and at times covertly, towards the creation of a single country known as Europa (or something similar), and this is not something that I wish the UK to be slowly absorbed into. Whilst I accept that my ‘Leave’ vote was probably not such a good thing for my own situation (exchange rates / health care etc), the personal consequences are something that I am willing to bear in order to maintain the UK’s independence. Perhaps it’s just because I am English, but I prefer my country to be governed from London (however badly) rather than being subjected to government from Brussels by a non elected European Commission made up of people who have little, if any, understanding of British values and customs.
For me James, the matter was simply one of ‘Sovereignty’. My vote to ‘Leave’ was simply a vote to maintain the independence of my country.
Robert.
Good luck Robert. You will need it. Soverignity and independence alone will not pay the bills.
This thread has been interesting and often made me laugh (well, crying was the only alternative with some of the replies). James asked for a short paragraph… and it turned into an epic…
I did note that some folk waffled rather than give details when asked…but that is how it goes…can be infuriating… and perhaps some replies were dashed off a little swiftly… but I have not judged anything by Simon to be “sexist”…or “bullying”.
We all interpret things differently, but I feel it is a real shame when these inflammatory terms are introduced and thus throw the Thread off its track.
Just saying…
I share that feeling, I hate the prospect of countries losing their national characteristics and identities and all merging into one.
And yet… France is a committed member of the EU, it’s part of the Eurozone and Schengen, but in my eyes it has retained far more Frenchness than England has retained Englishness in spite of the £ and the customs posts (though I wouldn’t necessarily say the same of Scotland, Wales or NI). France is very aware of the dangers of losing its Frenchness and holds regular national navel-gazing sessions about the French identity and what it means to be French, with questionnaires canvassing public opinion, and I find this rather endearing. It doesn’t feel obliged to embrace multi-culturalism unquestioningly because it’s afraid of being considered un-pc, and its different regions are proud of their traditions and keep them going. So I think France will retain its national identity even if more of its laws are agreed with Europe.