Don't worry I won't give up. we're planning or bi-annual trip to the UK so they can see first hand that it's a living language and they'll need to use it to speak to English family - I'm relying heavily on the interaction with their cousins as a catalyst! They'll be learning Occitan from Sept too. My Italian is too rusty now to try and really get them going on that as it needs to be good native level to work properly and effectively, but perhaps that'll come later. I know it's early days and all my studies tell me that things are on track but sometimes I want them to be ahead of the game! I'll take inspiration from your situation and others here ;-)
Agree with Nick Andrew, but I've said it all to you before. Because our two are bilingual the younger, at least, is now learning her mother's Italian and my second language German from us. Everybody who is bilingual has a head start for adding languages. Mind you this is a kid who was top of her class until final assessment put her third for this year and is studious like her mother, so can stick her head in a book to gen up on grammar. That aside, work on it because the world is becoming more demanding of language skills as OH and I know and have used to advantage. The next generation might even see big changes here in France whatever we might think right now, so go for it.
Noted Nick, and as a linguist and languages teacher I've been doing just that since they were in nappies/day 1 but it's an uphill battle! Interesting that yours are OK with English though, I worked with an English woman who like me uses French at home with OH but English with her kids who are now at uni, one of them speaks English OK, the other can, not very well, but refuses to do so saying she's French!
Andrew - Please don't make the same mistake I made. Speak with your children in English. Mine are now 14 and 11 and I regret not using my mother tongue. They are pulling through and they both now speak English fluently as well as French (Langue Mat) but oh how I should have spoken more English when they were in nappies
Don't be jealous Sharon, yes we get a very different insight into France but as my OH doesn't speak English neither do my kids! While yours are bilingual, mine, although still young, understand when I make an effort and talk to them in English but they always reply in French and talking to others who have been in the same situation, some never become bilingual and reject the "foreign" language completely!
Thank you Hayley, but isn't it a bit cheating when my husband is english :)
I agree with what you read. Not speaking your mother tongue at all for a long period of time is one of the best way to learn a language. Your brain will be in a survival mode if you want and you will pick up more than you realise. If you want to speak with me in french I'll be more than happy to help or correct if you want me too. For everyone here as well actually.
Absolutely agree Marianne...my husband was born in the UK but at 11 months moved to Canada with his Canadian dad and English mum....coming back to the UK at 11 years old.....the rest of Canada find the French speaking part difficult to the enth degree...most Quebecois will not, under any circumstances, speak other than French...even if that means not selling something in their shop... But truly that has nothing to do with the discussion about France which is part of the EU....Canada isnt so can be as difficult as it likes in accepting foreigners. Having said that...we have been to Toronto and the many Canadians I met were delightful, friendly, very interested in the UK and our TV programmes and the Queen and were generally most accommodating...we have found all the Canadians in the English speaking areas very friendly....
Not sure the Brits do....think as a nation the Brits are language disabled! though as a family....we have French, Spanish, Thai and a daughter has a smattering of Arabic....
but we don't have a federal europe, a united states of europe and you don't want that but you want all the advantages that go with it and for all other european countries to play to the UK's tune while the UK is the odd man out in the EU, the rebel...! We'll never agree on this one Carol, I accept that. What good is the EU... well even if things didn't work at all, and they do very well, not perfect but very well, the fact that it has stopped us fighting and killing each other for the past 60+ years is good enough for me, all the rest is a huge bonus. Let's agree to disagree on this one and leave it at that (in the friendliest way possible), bonne soirée et à +
No Andrew..I dont think it is. If thats the case then in France...sit back and wait for the job to come to you...you wont need to work hard to get it because if you live in an English area...you can be assured that no matter how good the other candidates, you will get the job! thats a shocking way to run a country and a bad signal to nationals.. ie. dont put in the effort because we will make sure you always get the job no matter how bad you are, and how good they are...not exactly what the common market was supposed to be about....not sure what the point of the EU is...if its just trade then why bother with the free borders and the agreement on the right to work throughout Europe if you wont get a job....sorry..but this really bothers me and Im not even looking for work here!
I dont take offense..so dont worry...I enjoy the debate as others will tell you. I know what you mean about the UK..years ago we went to the USA...in fact it was 16 years ago....and I was blown away by the excellent customer services..packing my shopping bag, polite...can we help...thank you..have a nice day...ok...I am easily pleased...but it knocked spots off the UK service industry at the time.... Now the UK is providing, well certainly in Newbury where we lived...a fabulous service...the local supermarkets provide a good polite service with a smile..packing shopping if required...opening extra tills when busy...I just think France is that bit behind in terms of service industry...not a crime...just something you notice.
Yes Brian, quite a shock to live there - people 'police' everyone else and I was always getting told off for not putting the rubbish bags out at exactly the right time :O
Oh Hayley, you do make me laugh - so refreshingly honest but very funny!!! You and Andrew have cheered me up bless and I only threw-in the OH being french bit because I'm jealous!! xx
Forgot to add that we're having to sell our house - my OH's dream corp de ferme with 7 hectares for her horses - to raise the finance necessary for our business project and go into rented accommodation, it's not easy for anyone at the moment, after all we are in one of the worst world financial crisis ever...!
I went to uni in Aix-en-provence, just as bad there (Paris of the south) and Marseille only 25km away makes it as bizarre as teh côte d'azur although I have a real soft spot for Menton and with Italian being my third language I would have loved to have lived there for the cultural mix and my little voilier would have been great in the harbour too! As you say, it's a great area to visit but not so good to live if you like peace and quiet...!
No problem, Hayley, didn't think that any of what you said was condescendant, so we are ok!
I'm sure you will succeed and all your effort would pay. What do you do exatly?
France is terrible for all administrative paper work it is an absolut nightmare!!! Even if you would be bitchin about France, I don't have a problem with it, you know, it is ok to bitch about stuff once in a while, it certainly makes you feel a lot better, I know it helps me!!!!I
like those conversations on this forum where everybody can share their point of view about France and I think sometimes it is also good to have the point of view from a french person who read you all a lot!!! Best of luck anyway for all your projects, I'm sure it will pay off!!
Hi Marianne, getting a job is bloody hard for most people at the moment, I've been there, my OH has just gone through a complete bilan de compétences but there is very little locally at all - and that's for a French woman still living in her own département with family contacts etc. so what I find a little difficult is the "it's because I'm a foreigner", yes there is a certain amount of that but in our case we're both qualified teachers but I'm the one who's found work not my French OH! And that's with me pushing her to try proactive anglosaxon door knocking tactics!!! anecdote about areas - I was a vacataire at the CCI in Aurillac in the Cantal and had about a months full time work (adding up what I did over a year) with them and there were only two of us. We moved back to the Aveyron and I managed to get an evening class at the CCI to get me started and within a couple of months I was full time as a vacataire teaching in businesses across the aveyron - huge difference within the same organisation down to area, I believe you're in Arcachon which as you say is lovely for a holiday but must be a nightmare for work. I guess the only option is the commute into Bordeaux. I left after finding better paid work in an IUT where I was pretty much full time too. For a couple of years I effectively had three jobs, CCI, IUT and translating and earnt some very good money but the IUT has changed it's employment rules for vacataire, the government has stopped paying hand over first for all the CCI training courses and the translation market has pretty much dried up :-O at the same time my OH's school is facing closure. In short, I know that things aren't easy because I'm there too. But they aren't easy anywhere and it's this general moaning that it's France that gets me a little (not having a go at you!) and I know that some can't make the move for family reasons etc. I think Arcachon must be one of the worst places to be at the moment especially surrounded by people who aren't friendly - go to any area that's prisé and you'll get that, come to areas that aren't and you'll find freindship no problem and another France (I know you can't but I wish you could because there are some great people out there!) and now I'm woffling and could go on all night but won't - I really hope you get something sorted soon, bonne soirée et à bientôt ;-)
Carol my comment wasnt meant to offend i appologise if it did, i suppose its down to planning it looks impresive on the plans, i used to see the same in Tesco or Asda in the uk queues a mile long past the frozen food then a call will all assistants man the tills which is a bit of a contradiction as most were girls
Andrew, isn't this discussion about how difficult it is to get a job in France? Well, by the popularity of this conversation it seems clear that this is a big problem a lot of us are facing. It is easier said than done to say that if you don't agree or don't like what you are living, to go somewhere else. I would have to leave my OH .... I am sure no one here, including me, thinks that is a good solution (well at least not at the moment:)
And yes, Italy was a hard place as attitudes go, but at least there I found some encouragement and did not have the feeling that as a foreigner I was not to be trusted, people wanted to befriend me, not avoid me.
Wherever I lived, I have always strived to "do as the Romans do", but nowhere have I experienced this kind of « rejection ». For lack of a better word.
I will however keep on smiling as I always do, and with a "Spoonful of sugar that helps the medicine go down, (read a glass of wine :) I will become one of the "Romans". Have a great evening :)
The Polish who are or were settling for jobs is not a permanent situation though Jillian...invariably its either because their English is almost non existent...(difficult to be a psychologist if you cant communicate with your patients) or whilst confirmation of qualifications are collected. Some European countries qualifications are equivalent to Uk qualifications..some are not..so some Europeans, usually Eastern Europeans...need to take a course to become suitably qualified. Nurses and medics qualified in France and Germany are ok to immediately take jobs in the UK.... I know of half a dozen health professionals from Poland who within a year were working within their chosen profession in the UK....maybe the UK has more jobs available...because its easier to employ people...and because of that..supermarkets are fully staffed (if more than two person queueing you can ask for another till to be opened).....more waiters and waitresses in restaurants...so guess the financial situation must be more buoyant in the UK...and the UK is different, as Andrew points out...to other countries in Europe...its the one country that employs people according to their qualifications and suitability for the job...rather than their nationality...which can be tough for the Brits..but then again....Brits cant sit back assuming they will get jobs because they are indigenous...they also have to be the best..