yep, as soon as you no longer fit in a box you no longer fit into french society - very true, and very frustrating at times, but there again not everyone wants to live in a box!
Hi Hayley,
Just to precise, my husband didn't leave the Royal Navy and move to france to become a waiter either but you need to take the money where it is, and at the time it was a very good opportunity to have a salary at the end of the month. It also allow him to improve a lot his french.
I think that you are like the majority of the people who leave their country for another one and really try to succeed and there is absolutly nothing wrong with that. But with success comes patience, hard work and motivation. I think. To become successfull in anything, I do think , that you need to learn the language of the country you live in, you need to try to fit in a clever way, not the way where you forget who you are and where you come from, no, a clever way where you appreciate the people arround you just because it makes everything easier.
I can only say that very few things have gone swimmingly for us when we came here. I guess it was perharps easier for us because I'm from here. But I live before in other countries and I know that adapting is surviving. I know that mixing with people is the key to know more and more people, not just those on this forum, but locals who will also be able to help you just because they know better than you the area, the country, the language.
I was trying to say that if a language is a main problem to get a job, than it could be fixed by learning the language. Going on and on like I saw on this thread by some people about how hard it is in France, how more difficult it is than anywhere else, I don't think that is going to help anyone being successfull.
If anyone ask you to be panel beaten for them, then I don't think they deserve your attention.
But appreciate where you are and try to make the most of it, I think that the clever way to achieve anything. I can understand that it's good to bitch about stuff around you ( after all, I'm french, kinda love bitchin'!) It's just that sometimes, with what I read, I have the feeling that it is always easier to blame everything around you but yourself. I don't think that France or the French can be held responsable for everything that go wrong in people's life, no patriostism in that, just my opinion.
Well Thank you!
John thats not an option in our town,our three supermarkets all close...12.30 till 3pm...so cant shop at lunchtime.. that wasnt really my comment..it was why build so many checkouts and never staff them...I go into the major towns...25kms away to shop sometimes...and even peak times...there are never more than half the cash tills open...thats a comment...by the way...not a moan!
OH has never spent more than two weeks in the UK with me meeting my family Hayley so she has nothing to compare France with and doesn't understand when I explain that things can be so much easier. In short, I came out here having already lived and worked here for a year or so and having done a maîtrise at a french uni so I knew what to expect. Only ever speak french to OH as her english is extremely limited - she can come out with the odd sentence when visiting my family. That's why I say "when in Rome..." - i came to live in France warts and all!
What a superb letter! I'm now stopping following this thread as, as per norm it has mostly wander away from the original subject. Well done Suzanne for bringing it back and talking a LOT of good sense!
That's interesting. I have a (French!) friend in Mimizan who says exactly the same (she is also seen as foreign as she originates from the Charente!) and is moving for that precise reason.
That's a really good point re the CV's and preparation Suzanne. Something I missed out on for a long time. It was really stupid on my part but sometimes you don't see the wood for the trees!
Actually, you have just said it yourself Sharon. Using the example of Switzerland that is so bureaucratic and convoluted by its 'rules' that my Swiss wife does not want to live there.
For a long time, my husband was convinced that not speaking french well enough was in the way of getting a good job. And you are right, being a plonger doesn't pay the bill. Funny enough, my husband was in the Royal Navy for 8 years so it was even harder for him because not only he had to find a job in the civil life but he had to do it in a foreign country with a foreign language.Even though I'm french, we always speak in english together but I admit, it was easier for him to learn french when he had to speak to my family or my friends. Unfortunatly, the best way to learn any language is to be completly surrounded by the locals and a job will do that. So it is a catch 22 situation for you. Are you completly certain that it is the language stopping him from getting those jobs? If it is, I would suggest to completly change his Cv with really putting in light all his experiences in england and elsewhere and really preparing his job interviews with maybe a coach? It may sound silly ( and perharps expensive) but there are people who can really help you making the most of your quality during a job interview. I have completly created my husband's CV and send it to a massive number of businnesses using software that allow you to send tons of email at once. I could help you with his CV if you want. Also, someone suggested targeting UK businesses in France, i'm sure it is a good idea. Anyway, I'll be glad to help if I can and I'm sure it will turn out Ok.
OH being French doesn't automatically ease things Sharon, my OH is french and I'm the one bailing us out of work problems at the moment - the school where she teaches is closing and there's nothing else locally so we're buying a shop - yes we have friends and family around us but it's hard for everyone at the moment, very hard! chin up and best of luck ;-)
OK - wil do Marianne - thank you very much for the offer and good luck in the move! What is the name of your new town/village?
I agree with Marianne! Furthermore, have you tried to emmigrate to Canada? If you haven't tried then I don't know how you can comment? Equally, try emmigrating to another part of English Canada - Ottawa for example or Kingston - both short train rides to Montreal where you can visit your son. It might be a little easier than the discriminatory French Canadians. I know of what I speak having lived in Montreal for almost 15 years myself.
Ian, as I said, France is beautiful ..... but :)
Arcachon is beautiful ..... for vacations, yes, for visits, yes, but Arcachon is also the city with the oldest population per capita in all of France! Outside of July and August and some nice weekends when the Bordelaise come and visit "La côte", living here feels like living in an immense retirement home. I have nothing against elderly people, I'll get there soon enough, but the French attitude that we have been talking about in this entire conversation is greatly magnified here due to that age group. Here they don't like foreigners, won't go out of their way to please foreigners, and, God forbid, don't befriend foreigners. It seems they still think that befriending foreigners is close to "collaboration with the enemy".
And no, they don't have to please foreign tourists, why .... there will always be more to come. So, why make the effort?
After 7 years I finally have the opportunity to leave Arcachon. I'll be moving to a smaller town, still in the Bay area, but away from all the hypocratism (?)
For me it will only be a 35 km move, but in attitude its almost a world away.
So, as they say, be careful what you wish for :)
However, if you and your family will ever come to visit this area, let me know, I'll show you around :)
Suzanne, first you made me laugh, in a good way though, and secondly you are right. Last Saturday we were at an apero after a children's birthday party until midnight! So, for six hours two 'foreigners' took part in conversation, jokes, met a couple of new people, enjoyed every moment and the one person who was a bit worried about us then found out how many languages my wife and I have between us and where we have worked and lived but that we are happy here and wish to stay. He settled down then. Now a couple of people have spoken to me in English outside school yesterday morning, expressing a wish to 'use me' a bit to improve their English. Why? Because I can speak their language and 'disappear' among them, not like Anglais that nobody likes or wants.
@Hayley, yes it's about surviving and it's a fine line between constructive criticism and just having a go, I'm not for a moment saying that Marianne is just having a go and her situation must be incredibly annoying and frustrating but sometimes the way forward is to fight using the same rules. On general note, one can spend a lifetime in another country complaining about what isn't right and tht it's better elsewhere etc. or accept that that's the way it is and move forward, as we keep saying, nowhere is perfect, mais la vie est belle dans les midi-pyrénées, non ! ;-)
What a lovely balanced comment Suzanne - if I thought that the french were xenophobic I would've packed my bags long ago - we have made our life here - the children are bi-lingual and we want to stay here. But my OH has had some bad experiences with trying to find work in france (being a plonger doesn't pay the bills) and the more time he spends working outside of this country, the less he is using his french, it's a catch 22 situation. I live here with my eyes open, I find the systems are rigid compared to any other country we have lived in (apart from Switzerland) even for the french - a french friend of ours tells us that when he left the military, he had a lot of discrimination when he was trying to find another job and it took him many years to get a 'decent' position even though he was very well qualified as a communications engineer.
Perhaps the best answer is to marry someone french (unfortunately for my OH I am not french!) true there are no magical solutions, but the plan at the moment is that I work flat out teaching english as I will be doing this summer, and as someone suggested, setting up an on-line business may be the way forward for us to live in the same country again!!!
Hi Glenn,
First, Insular means living or located on an island. Don't know how we could be insular, France is not an island. Then, I don't thing you know what xenophobic means. I don't think you would have been able to set up your own business in a proper xenophobic country. That's for semantic.
Also, how can we fear anything that is not french when we are the first land of asylum in europe?
For the Europe part, I think we have embrasse Europe a bit more than english, don't you think? Just look at the money...
I'm not even going to comment on the holidays destination, clearly you have never been to spain, USA or ASIA where there are tons of french tourists.
I feel for you, really, living in such a xenophobic country where you have been able to live, surely find a home, manage to have set up your own business, probably using our horrible completly free health care that applies for every single person living in France regardless of their origins, their skill for french language or, for that matter, their love for the country they live in.
One question, though, how come you re still here?
I rest my case!
Like Sheila, agreed. I have several, have always been bilingual and my OH has been for much of her life too. She is a born Italian speaker, but Swiss, and we have given up on finding work in Italy ever and believe me when I say at one stage we had the Bishop of Bologna with our then few month old baby in his arms almost begging us to come to work at the university. No exageration or made up story. We were the double star act at a conference on childhood but although the professor (head of faculty in fact) made an offer, in the end bureaucrats made it virtually impossible for us to actually apply. Main problem they put to us was that said daughter the bishop held is Down Syndrome and they argued that the Italian health and medical systems should not take in a child from another system without extensive medical and pedagogical examination. She was under a year old, so what the hell would the latter have proven. In fact it was bureaucracy applying unbendable regulations so that they made sure we did not apply irrespective of what senior academics wanted. Tell me France is as bad as that?