I guess bottom line Maria is that we decided to move to France...I am kicking myself for not doing more research, rather than moving first then moaning second! I will stop moaning now! Good luck Maria...x
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HELP! After filling in my French tax form and receiving a “0” to pay as usual, I have just received a bill from them for 4000 euros (2013 and 2014) to be paid in November!!! A French friend who speaks a little English (and me a little French) thinks they have added the rent from our house in the UK (which of course I have always declared and which HAS to be paid in the UK) and my pension which is a Civil Service Pension which also HAS to be taxed in the UK. I phoned the UK Tax Office and they tell me a Civil Service Pension is covered by the Double Taxation treaty and is NOT up for discussion. If the French tax me that is my problem if I pay it. They will continue to tax me as it is the law in the UK and has never been changed by the UK or France. The Tax Office here say all tax laws were changed recently. The UK say the Double Taxation Treaty absolutely has not been changed. Does anyone know who has got it right and who has got it wrong. I would be so grateful.
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Norah
I am not able to advise you on tax issues but find a tax specialist in France, who is bilingual and let them sort the mess out and submit your future returns on-line. OK it costs a few Euros, but save you the hassle and stress.
I live near Bergerac/ Ste Foy La Grande and if you are close then email me and I will give you the contact details of the person who does my stuff.
Peter S
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Thank you so much for your kind advice Peter.
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Dear Norah,
I am going to make some guesses as to how you have completed the 2047 and the 2042 which may have contributed to the problem you now have. It is possible you simply haven’t entered the rental income and government pensions on the French forms 2047 (red) and 2042 (blue). If so, you are in the wrong because the figures should be entered so that the French can compute the tax liability on any income that is taxable - such as an old age pension or bank interest.
If you have entered these items then the problem might be the one that has affected us in the past. We used to enter these figures in Cadre 6 (taxable but open to a credit) and then carry them forward to Box 8TK on the 2042. We did not include them in Box 1AS/1BS (pensions) nor did we include the UK rental income as revenu foncier in Box 4BE on the 2042. The only figures we entered in 1AS/1BS were our UK State Pensions which are taxable by the French.
We are now being invited to enter our government pensions in box 1AS/1BS as well as entering them on the 2047 (Cadre 6) and then carried forward to Box 8TK on the 2042. Ditto as regards the rental income from real property in the UK with an entry in Cadre 6 2047 carried forward to Box 4BE. In the past the French tax authorities have asked us to do this but then (perhaps because machines are assessing the tax) treated the amounts entered in 1AS/1BS and 8TK as cumulative and, in effect, treated us as having twice the income we in fact had. We did make a successful application to reclaim the over-payments. However we are now being invited again to complete the forms 20142 and 2047 in the same way that caused the problem in the first place. “Connexions” produce an advice paper that strongly argues that foreign rental income and Government pensions should only be entered in Cadre 6 on the 2047 and then only in Box 8TK on the 2042.
The French will argue that, unless the figures are entered in Box 1AS/1BS etc, they cannot give the credit because they have to go through an assessment process so as to determine the amount of tax due, so that they can determine the credit due. We have written a letter to the French tax authorities making the point that the Double Tax Convention permits the French to “take into account” the UK govt income etc which does not entitle them to “tax” it. Accordingly the cumulative entry in Box 8TK is sufficient.
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I am outstandingly impressed by Tim’s reply and his obvious knowledge of the tax system and I assume his fluency in French.
But if you ever wanted a justification for having an accountant do this work for you, assuming you do not have Tim’s competence, then surely this is it.
I also have to add that on the few occasions I have dealt directly with the Impots with a personal visit to their offices, I have found them extremely helpful.
Also, on one occasion I received a phone call telling me I had not filled in the form correctly and would they like them to correct it for me!!
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Thank you for your kind words Peter but I am neither fluent nor have any particular competence. I’ve just had to work at it. I also agree with your advice that Norah should consult a professional accountant.
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Tim - you are a superstar!! I have been to our local tax office (with a French friend) and, it is exactly as you said. The lady who dealt with our case said it was actually French Social Charges that we owed but, after she rewrote two of our tax forms (no one in the UK ever offered to do that for me!!!), and a Social Form (blue), the charge is to be considerably reduced. However, our friend, who is no slouch at tax matters, has advised exactly as you and Peter - get an accountant, and this we shall be doing for the following year.
Thank you to all of you for your kind and timely advice.
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Glad you got a good result Norah.
Best Wishes.
Tim
You are already a pensioner, in France. Go to your Mairie, they will advise you.
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