Hope james isn't watching this, we'll be done for obscenity!!!!
Mwa Mwa Mwa
( That was air kissing by the way)
Well thank you Mme Higginson...
Spot on M. Milne.
I wonder what this anger will turn into when tax rates shoot up everywhere else. Is the UK so great at present? That great genius of economic planning Ian Duncan-Smith is projecting benefit cuts that will not even provide the loose change for the amounts George Osborne wishes to raise, so to cut back government spending they have to do it on the slide rule principle by raising taxes. Since we know the very rich do not get higher tax bills who then? The real situation of Germany is nothing like as glowing as their very small growth rate appears to imply, they need more taxes and cutbacks to balance the books. Across the pond it smells suspiciously like the population of the USA are walking into what Bush senior called 'deep dudu' when they vote Romney into office in a few days time. China is not the powerhouse everybody believed they were, Japan is past its prime and most of the countries with high rates of growth are coming up from rock bottom anyway. The world is drawing close to universal bankruptcy. Serious economists who dare, tell us that the so-called Great Depression will be a pin prick compared.
When it all begins and France finally has no choice but to make public sector cuts the chaos will be systemic. It will be the proverbial house of cards. The whole country will fall apart and I am ready for that, prepared to sit back and let it happen around me. It will happen everywhere else too, so where to run? A pessimist, me no way, but a realist always. The form of state capitalism France has adopted has none of the pleasantries a 'socialist' regime allows people. It is no better than the overtly capitalist UK, also fundamentally no worse. What is different perhaps is that the French do not pull the wool over anybody's eyes, they just go upfront and do whatever they do. As for the oversized public service, in truth the taxes hit them as much as anybody else. They may have a job for life, but the ones hereabouts whose safe income is SMIC are hardly encouraged to be loyalists to some kind of quasi-totalitarian regime. It does not pay them enough to buy such loyalty. Hollande will do his term in office, UMP and FN will coalign and will it get better? Well, if the economic world lasts long enough for that election and an outcome, quite frankly the outlook is no change...
I understand that taxation principle. The tax that was announced in addition last week was 0.3% on PENSION income to help pay for the cost of the aging population and I expect that it will be applied to Brit expats here in France. To be honest between me, my last late wife and my child we have had lots of benefit from the French system. Some xpats will be squealing about the pension tax no doubt. Just as soon as they found out that the British are having to give them Winter Fuel Payment the French will more than take it away!
Couldnt agree more Glen.
First time I have received one too- just over 600 euros. I do have some income from UK property but that is tax deducted at source (20%) before I get the income. I had thought that taxed property income was exempt from CSG etc, but dividend income (taxed in the UK at 10%) and bank interest (remember that?) was not exempt. I have heard that there are huge differences between different tax offices as to how this tax is levied so I do intend to follow up on it, but have just paid it pro tem. I do undoubtedly benefit from the French system as I have a child in free school here, so I do expect to contribute to the French state (although in the UK I sent my children to fee paying schools and hardly ever used the NHS) more than an average retired expat. Like Maria I have a rented out property in France and I am expecting the profit income from that to be taxed at 35.5%. What's more I have just heard that the French parliament approved another 0.3% tax hike last week so I am trying to discover what that is all about. We are all finding out that France is on average a more highly taxed country than the UK and as a result of the crisis we are being raided. However whilst I have considered moving again (my UK lawyer recommended it) I came to the conclusion that cost, disruption etc of doing so would not really be on, and I would certainly feel thoroughly p****d off if I had to move back to the UK where my lifestyle, and house, would be far worse. Incidentally I thought that all the health bills for retired Brits on UK state pensions are eventually picked up by the UK government anyway. The money being raised by these taxes is partially for social reasons (one can only imagine!) and partially for reduction of state debt and I certainly wonder why some of us should be paying much towards that!
2006, when i first arrived in france, back in the days of 6% interest[remember those days?].. my banks refused to release the gross interest from my uk accounts, so i was taxed at source by HMRC.. i declared everything here and had a reasonable????.. avis d'impot.. at least it was what i had calculated.. then caught an unexpected 1100€ CSG avis.. which i hadn't known about.. The French tax man said it was levied on any and all income from abroad[outside france].. The French taxman was very helpful in advising me to apply for a dual tax treaty, which was simple to do..all 8 pages!!.. but it worked, HMRC refunded the tax i paid in uk.. but the CSG remains.. and the I.O.M now has my savings because the uk banks didn't wan't to continue my savings accounts due to French residency.. i think the current rate of CSG is near 13%.. gone are the days of interest, so are the big demands for CSG.. i begrudge then their 13%..but would dearly love to still have the 87%.. France has the debt, yes..we didn't create it.. but being tax resident here, we take on their debt.. life's a b*****
Hi Chris
If you already pay your Cotisations for the CSG and the CRDS you do not have to pay them again to the tax office in the forsm of Prelevements Sociaux. Please check your tax declaration as you might have entered a figure by mistake in the box for income liable for social charges. Call your local tax office before paying anything to double check.
Nic
Me too. Seem to think my income is 10 times higher than last year - I wish!
I'm not assuming it is correct because the computer says it. The point is that if you use the calculator and it doesn't come up with the kind of number you are expecting, then it gives you a chance to figure out if perhaps there is a mistake in which figures have been entered into which boxes. I much prefer doing that than relying on someone else to put the numbers in for me.
I can only speak from my own experience, which is that putting the values from AE into the boxes as indicated on the end of year summary from RSI, and noting against the pension income Revenus 1AS and 1BS exonérés de charges sociales (as suggested in the Connexion helpguide) the amount we have been charged appears to correctly relate only to our other earned income (gite rental) on which we have not paid CSG.
Forget what I said about pension just looked at form I dont think it could happen, but the uk rentals are wrong.
Just a quick note
I went with my father to Nontron Tax office today about being taxed on our UK Rental in France on our Prelevements Sociaux.
Delt with in super fast time, we are now 1500 Euros better off.
You need the
Avis de impot
Demand for Prevements sociaux
P60 or copy of your English Tax return to show it has been taxed in UK
We also had the years activty from the Management company
She adjusted the bill straight away, she speaks English too so that was a bonus for me. They are well aware of this years glitch on Global Income check what you are being charged and that your goverment pension and private pension have not been combined. If it is very high in comparison to previous years check it.
Excellent advice and thank you for your help. Much stress relieved!
I am surprised that so many people seem to be surprised by the amounts being demanded on the Avis d'Imposition.
If you do your tax return online, or even enter the figures into the online calculator, you are able to determine - before you finally submit it - what the social charges are going to be on your declared income. The amount of our Avis d'Imposition is exactly what was indicated - in our case our declared income includes UK private pension, UK state pension, Auto Entrepreneur activities and our gite rental income. Most of the tax is paid as we go along through the Auto Entrepreneur submissions and what they are asking for the rest of our income seems quite reasonable to me!
If the figure seems higher than you are expecting, then there is a chance to check that you are putting your numbers in all the right boxes before completing your return.
So I would recommend that everyone use the online tools in future, if at all possible.
I have not been able to follow all of this thread, but the expert advice we have received confirms the above, ie that social charges are not payable on UK rental income.
We have an article about this and the broader issue of social charges on pensions in our Newsletter due out next Thursday.
From the mails we have received, it is clear many local taxes offices have adopted a policy of 'shoot first, ask questions later'.
Hi Liane, the answer is simple - you don't however the Impots do not know this - please read my blog about it and head down to your local Hotel des Impots straight away.
http://www.survivefrance.com/profiles/blog/list?user=07sk2snhee9io
snap!
Read all the posts, I am still confused as to why I have to pay another 13% contribution on top of my AE cotisations of 18.3% (for carte vital to RSI/RAM etc) - that's a whopping 35%. I have no other income, no assets in the UK, no income in the UK, not retired, have lived here 7 years in my home which is my prime priciple residence. Now off to see the nice people at the Impots office.