If your comment shows anything it is like a lot of comments on this subject lacking in any knowledge, I’d be more inclined to say having the courage to express yourself is more about individuality, my tattoo’s were given long consideration and research, I also spent quite a lot of time finding the right person to apply his ‘art’ and you’ll never find it on any shelf…so bah
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Being able to express yourself is a personal decision and comes in many forms and that has never being questioned. Having the right to comment on visible fashion choices is something else and everyone will be guilty of being human enough to have done that.
TLDR, the bottom line seems to be that ladies with tattoos are “unattractive” to uptight men that like to write academic papers… not all of them surely…but the solution is simple…
If you find a tattoed lady unattractive, don’t date her. Chat to her, have coffee with her, perhaps ask her to dance, but do not marry this woman. you SHALL regret it.
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Mark… you’re repeating yourself, and I tend to do it once, and once only, then I get bored. The woman that turned you down for a dance, perhaps she didn’t even look at you, perhaps it wasn’t about you. Perhaps she was a crap dancer, she was married to a jealous weirdo that would have hurt her if she saw you dancing with her? Maybe she was a lesbian and didn’t want to cramp her style with a bloke… maybe she had a sore foot that night. See? Not all about you, is it?.
you said “We have all crossed the road when… set off those little bells” Yes, you said that… yes, I said what I said…I won’t repeat it, it’s written above.
You said “I don’t shy away from tattoo’ed people & I certainly don’t think that they are evil but they will have to work a little harder than others to earn my trust in business. I cannot name a single bank manager with visible tattoos.
They can & often are nice people but a check on street gangs shows that they can equally be very nasty. This makes me wary until I know.”… Perhaps it’s not very clear, but you brought up street gangs, not me… They have no place in the equation, in my opinion… and again, I replied and I will not repeat myself.
I’m not judging you, based on your offense taken when I quote you?? I simply replied to what you wrote. Taking offence where none is intended is really not something I will apologise for.
I have worked with plenty of people with visible tats in work, I have paid for services for and employed many folks with tatts… when we were looking for plumbers, masons, carpenters and so on for our building site and they started coming by to see the place and give quotes… we picked the candidate based on how motivated they seemed, how easy they seemed to work with, the price, of course, and their proposed timeframe… Their clothes, beards, accents, mode of transport or height didn’t come into the equation, why should their tatts? I have seen them in plenty of working environments, restaurants, bars, shops, market stalls, mechanics, boat mechanics, police, military, firefighters, nurses, the lady in the post office has a butterfly on her neck, for crying out loud. So, YES, yes we DO see them in the working environment… even if you think we shouldn’t… so be it. We do.
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I think I realise why some of the posts are so critical!
The title of my post reads “Women, tattoos & piercings”, although I go on to generalise. The photos I put in that post are examples of the tattoos I don’t like - it’s not the usual ones many have. To me they take away from the person because they are so “in your face” & extreme. You can’t see beyond it!
The association of excessive tattoos & criminal gangs? Check out the Kenco coffee advert!
Tattoos in the work place? My view? How about advice from a pro tattoo site - http://blog.tat2x.com?
They, not I, had this to say in 2014.
"Tattoo fans may struggle to find a career that provides a decent living but also allows for freedom of expression.
Finding a career that is accepting of body art can be difficult, and can leave you struggling with unemployment issues. Many companies have become more lenient about their dress code policies regarding tattoos. Some employers now allow tattoos if they are not visible, allow covering them during work hours or will even consider employees with small visible tattoos as long as they are not considered offensive.
Some professions are more understanding than others about body art, so choose wisely where your tattoo is placed if you are considering a career in one of the following areas. These are the least tattoo friendly industries:
Healthcare Professionals
Police Officers and Law Enforcement
Law Firms
Financial Institutions
This includes a wide variety of careers including accountants, financial advisors, bank tellers, stock brokers etc. Tattoos and piercings are not usually seen in the banking sector, as individuals need to be seen as highly professional and trustworthy in the banking community.
Teachers
Hotels
Government
A career with the government is a no-brainer when it comes to the question of tattoo acceptance. It is frowned upon in this field for the same reason as it is in law enforcement. This area also uses the professionalism justification for often banning visible tattoos.
Sales
Depending on the type of sales you go into, the majority will not allow visible ink. Real estate agents rarely show off any visible ink at the office or with clients. Some areas of retail sales ask for cover-up as well. Even in the tricky business of sales, some companies believe clients will not find you trustworthy if you have tattoos. However if you are not in a customer-facing role, such as working in a call centre, your physical appearance and tattoos may not be restricted.
Management
Management restrictions on tattoos will again depend on the type of business it is. In a field where managers tend to have some privileges those under them do not, no visible or covered tattoos is usually an across the board rule. Many large corporations have implemented rules that managers maintain the same professionalism as their subordinates."
There is much more. Have a look.
Re the dance thing, I only mentioned it to show that we all have a mental picture of what we find attractive. I’m sure that if many women were given a choice to dance with me or George Clooney I think I know how it would go. Dont understand why?
Like Dr Myrna Armstrong, Dr Diana Hawkins & Dr Nicole Price…?
Nicole Price… is the second to be named as a ressearcher, to Douglas Degelman… Their “experiment”… show ONE photograph (two variants) to people. One photograph. One woman… people get to look at, and judge ONE woman. Hardly top of the class in experimental design. Not even back in 2002, when it was published…well over 10 years ago. I’d like to think that times have changed.
Diana Hawkins… back in 2004… once again, I could poke holes in her study, but I’m frankly not interested enough, because I live in reality.
I turn your attention to Professor Mark Griffiths, a man so against tattoos, he seems to have made it his life’s work to blog and publish negative articles about them… Honestly… I don’t like prawns, never did, but to spend hours of my life divising scientific reasons why we shouldn’t eat or like them… hmmmm. Maybe he needs a hobby. I chose him, because you say he has done a bit of reearch in the area, and he mentions that he has blogged at length about the “issue”…
which for me is a non issue. Some folks don’t like em… fair enough… but it’s a waste of time trying to convince everyone around you that they’re bad, ugly, going to have an impact on life, will deter folks from employing and so on…
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You ALREADY said, Mark, that tattoos would somehow hamper a person’s ability to either find, or keep their job… I replied to that… but here we are with the repetition… I mentioned all the professions above BECAUSE I know people that are tattoed, and work in those fields.
Some police, military, firefighters and so on actually tattoo regiment numbers, crests, coats of arms of their precint, barracks, station on their arms. Don’t take my word for it, Go to google, click on “Image”, and type in “police tattoo”, type in “firefighter tattoo”, type in “military tattoo”… Those folks all seem to have work.
Doctors also, I know a few doctors that have visible tattoos, my own generaliste has tribal art all down one arm, the cardiologist I recently had to see had a motorcycle on the inside of her forearm.https://i.cbc.ca/1.3241697.1443126706!/fileImage/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/16x9_1180/lego-doctor-tattoo.jpg
My brother is a teacher, he has one. I have worked in hotel management for over 15 years, all over the world, and have seen them just about everywhere. I see you added “government”… well, I have already addressed military, police, and firefighters, what about inside government buildings?? here, try this http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/my-tattoos-are-art-they-tell-my-life-story-says-new-senator-34781396.html
Truth be told, Mark, you don’t see them because tyou don’t want to, but they’re everywhere, and the next time to shake the hand of your bank manager, or doctor, bear in mind that he may have a giant crucifix across his back, or a childhood pet over his heart. You just never know.
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Not my words at all, just your interpretation. Did you miss the bit from the PRO tattoo site? They, not I, are saying that visible tattoos can affect one’s career. Somehow you choose to ignore the quote in your determination to label me as a tattoo’d person hater. I’ll not repeat myself on that bit. Your reply conveniently ignores most of my content which should explain to you the reasons why visible tattoos can (but not always) can affect job choices. The Kenco coffee advert claims to help keep young people on out of trouble by showing a heavily tattoo’d gang trying to recruit a young man. The young man has tattoos too, but ones that can be covered. How would you interpret that image?
Sure, a bank manager may have a tattoo on his back but it is not on show at work, ditto police, firefighters, etc.
Again, the pro tattoo site (not me) has this to say:-
Company’s main reasons for opposing tattoos are:
- They are not considered professional
- The have a negative stigma of being associated with criminal activity
- They can be distracting and will cause disruptions within the workplace – such as debates or arguments with customers.
If I can’t see them then it won’t affect my attitude to a total stranger to whom I am meant to trust within a minute of first encountering them - in a professional capacity. In a social situation it makes no difference to me because the interaction is on a different level.
I had a visit from a friend yesterday. Known him for years. He has managed contracts for companies worth many millions. 3 years ago, now in his sixties, he had some tattoos & ear rings. I had to tell him that now I hate him & want nothing to do with him as he is now a low-life potential criminal & his tattoos are horrible.
Fortunately he is not a dumb-ass! Of course he knows me well. He had popped round to drop off a bottle of a very nice bottle of a St Emilion Grand Cru from his cellar. I showed him some of the posts on this thread which made him laugh. His view of me and my dislike of visible (excessive) tattoos really made my day.
From weebly.com.
Tattoos are basically a way women reject the typical beauty standards and it screams that we will no longer try to look the way a man wants us to be. We will no longer try to be that model in the Playboy magazine, and as women’s participation in tattooing expands and diversifies, so must our sociological understanding of women’s tattooing (Atkinson, Michael).
I get it, but I don’t have to like it, Zoe.
You have mentioned that they have an impact on how people are seen, and in particular, in a professional light. You have mentioned that they are something you find unattractive. You have mentioned that gang members have them, and so… they are, by association, related to “bad” people… but we already went through that. Nit my interpretation, they are all suggestions that you have made. Unnatractive, gang members, getting work, YOu brought those issues up, not me. Lather, rinse, repeat.
Did I directly call you a “tattoo hater”? I don’t recall, but your eagerness to plaster this page with “what everyone says” about tatooed peopl absolutely means that you have some point to prove… If it’s not that you dislike tattoos, then what the blazes is it?
A company can refuse to employ poeple for so many reasons, tattoos included, but I said (yes, and I have to say it again, third time, now I think!!) I know bankers, doctors, firemen, hotel managers, restaurant maangers, paramedics, post office clercs, insurance sales people, gendarmes, police, car salesmen, estate agents and so on, and so on and so on that HAVE tattoos and have work. PLEASE, pretty please, don’t copy and paste yet another paragraph by yet another website about how tattoed folks cannot possibly find employment. I know someone that has been refused a job because she had just gotten married and openly mentoined in the interview that she wanted to have a baby soon. A company has the right to have a policy, but not to discriminate.
also, so… now the conversation has changed, and we’re not longer talking about tattoos, we’re ONLY talking about ones that are visible when clothed?I’d like to know, because it’s a bit like discussing salted butter caramel all the time not knowing that the others are talking about unsalted butter caramel.
As for your little paragraph from weebly (scraping the barrel, mate) That’s one man’s opinion, and it’s not totally accurate for all women, while it might right true for others. A man isn’t getting a tattoo to free himself from chains of manhhod, why would a woman consider it like that? Maybe it’s the name of someone special to her, maybe it’s tribal, perhaps it’s to help her deal with some grief or pain. Either way, I can see the types posing in playboy very easily having tattoos, so, to that…; i can only say WTF. Stop trying to “understand” why a woman, or a man, for that matter, tattoos themselves, cross dresses, peirces their ears, nose, nipple, eats surimi, or whatever.
You get it?? You probably don’t, but nobody is asking you to… You don’t have to like it??? Good, because nobody is asking for your permission.
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I’m not going to convince you, Zoe, but for the benefit of anyone else who may be following this thread I will just pick a few points where you are glaringly wrong.[quote=“Zoe_Buckley, post:26, topic:14244”]
how about those with visible birthmarks, deformations, burn scarring on the face…
[/quote]
What a stupid question! Don’t you think there is a difference between a tattoo & a burn scar? Who would walk in to a shop & pay good money to have someone turn a blow torch on them? Tattoos are a choice, the others are not. Cheap shot![quote=“Zoe_Buckley, post:26, topic:14244”]
criticising and judging without knowing the person is what’s really offensive and horrid here.
[/quote]
So why are you? You do not know me. Practice what you preach.
But to me they are not? You do not like brown cordrouy trousers, I don’t like tattoos. Does this mean that you do not like the person wearing them?[quote=“Zoe_Buckley, post:34, topic:14244”]
I doubt very much the man in your photo is going to mass on sundays,
[/quote]
Why wouldn’t he? You wouldn’t have come to that conclusion because of his tattoos by any chance?
Perhaps the photo examples in my first post were not clear enough. I refer again to the title of the discussion. More examples of the kind of tattoos I feel detract from a woman’s appearance rather than enhance can be found here All SuicideGirls Photos | SuicideGirls
“Suicide Girls. For those of you who don’t know them (OMG WHAT?), these beautiful ladies became famous for embracing beauty in every shape and form — meaning bodies covered in tattoos, having bright-colored hair, and being outside of traditional beauty norms were celebrated. The name comes from the idea that women who commit “social suicide” by being different come together.”
They are already pretty. I think the extras detract rather than add (like brown cordruoys?)
Ok, you’ve got me there! There is not, & never has been, any history of social stigma being related to tattoos. I apologise & admit that I have written all 563,000 articles on Google which refer to this. (tattoo stigma) I have therefore come to my associations purely in my head & in no way from any other source.
There, your reality preserved!
Now I think that others are tired of our batting this ball back & forth so I will leave you with the last word. Just make it nicely!
No, Mark, I won’t repeat myself yet again, everything I said was in reply to a comment of yours, and to RE-defend any of the above points would be repeating myself… again. You have quoted me out of context, twisted my words and their meaning, and that’s all fine, perception is like beauty in that sense. I don’t like brown cords, and so, I wouldn’t wear them, but I wouldn’t let that dictate how I would see or treat a wearer of brown cords… see where this is going??
Say what you like, but you DID imply that a tattoed person would not be someone you would hire or do business with. See, there’s the difference. I’d hire the guy in borwn cords, if he got the jobs done in time, on budget, and correctly.
As regards the rest… lol.
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Think you two are flirting big time here😂
I agree, what could be more beautiful than skin? when I see a tattoo, I think…misguided, broken soul…
There’s some beautiful tattoos out there, works of art that people choose to wear on their skin. Each to his own. I only have a problem with tattoos when it makes the person clearly unemployable (there are some extremes out there) and the taxpayer has to pick up the bill somewhere. But otherwise, brown hair, red hair, blue hair? Hipster beard or clean shaven? Slim boyish body or huge Kardashian-style bum? Thank goodness that we don’t all agree on beauty because it means that someone, somewhere will always find you gorgeous. And bravo to those who decide not to live their life boringly!!
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“Human nature”…and one poster previously used the word “instinct.” The problem with ANY argument from ‘human nature’, “X is part of human nature”, is that it is impossible to verify and it is equally impossible to discount. As a species we have no collective memory of what it was like to live ‘naturally’, and arguments from human nature tend to be either or both of speculative and self-serving, and/or based on behaviour, and human behaviour cannot be used as a basis for deriving conclusions about human nature as ANY human behaviour can stand for both X and its opposite.
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I do not want to be tattooed… that is a personal choice… but I have a very dear friend who is a brilliant but “undiscovered” artist.
Needing to make a living to support herself and her son… she trained to be a tattooist… Taught by an expert with an excellent international reputation… she now is able to command an amazing sum per hour for each tattoo and is fully booked for months in advance.
Each tattoo is a work of art in itself. Never two the same…and the colours are so vibrant…I have to admire them and the workmanship. To me, the very best ones are when they transform a ghastly scar area etc…
Just saying…
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You have then Stella a remarkable friend . Tattoos in general are not works of art,although they may be works of craft, they are unoriginal and derivative. Some of the “polynesian” ones are cultural misappropriation. Their one practical use I suppose is they help the identification of the otherwise anonymous dead.
David GAY
I understand what you are saying … and would agree with you… except in her case. She works very closely with each client, to find out what they want and why… they often bring a cherished photo etc. … and it doesn’t matter how much folk admire a particular tattoo… she never duplicates.
My walls are full of her work (no, not bodies 
) the earliest when she was 10 and won her first Art competition… I wish she would devote more time to her “normal” art… but it is not financially viable for her to do so. I am waiting for her to finish a huge portrait of a mother gorilla and baby… she’s been working on that on and off for nearly 2 years…and I am trying to reorganize my wall space in anticipation… 
Stella, I agree that some tattoos are indeed so skilful & beautiful, but it is the canvas used which I have a problem with. A work of art is admired & the artist praised, but who remembers the frame?
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