The maxim about fish and visitors is carved above the entrance to the (now derelict) chateau in our next village!
It sometimes seems that family and friends think that living in France equals permanent holidays. Certainly in the first 2 years after i'd moved to France we had an almost constant number of people occupying the rooms in our house, coming and going whenever they wanted, raiding the fridge and the cellar. And being a bit upset when I said no if they asked for a guided tour of Bordeaux or Arcachon instead of understanding that getting a run-down vineyard up to par again means a lot of work and no holidays at all. The same goes when you're in the gîtes business. Each occupied room that is not paid for is a loss for your business
When in the second year the same group of people started showing up again I had a polite but firm discussion with each of them, explaining that this would be the last time. That they'd be welcome any time they want, that I'd be happy to get them a hotel room or a gîte in the neighborhood, sort out their transport etc. Only one couple was offended by that, the rest understood. And now our guest rooms are used only for one or two nights for those who stop by on their way to their final holiday destination or when it it's not wise to drive after a nice meal and accompanying drinks. And we still see a lot of our friends in the course of a year.
But you need to be absolutely clear on this subject.
My god, that is really terrible!
I am just reminded by my OH about a couple I exchange Christmas cards with (forgot this time, oh dear!) who I had not actually seen for well over a decade. Last Spring they arrived at our door, well not quite because our scary looking German Shepherd held them just outside the gate.
We had a couple from my wife's side staying, in fact they were just about 48 hours arrived. Anyway, my 'friends' said "WE (which I should write several sizes larger to emphasise the 'WE') have arrived, perhaps you could ask the others to go if you do not have space" or words to that effect. They were in the area to see if they wanted to buy here too, they claimed anyway. So, not being mean we invited them to have dinner - after they had been to find bed and breakfast or similar nearby. They looked at each other hurt and left. They did not turn up for dinner or again at all and, perhaps unsurprisingly, we did not receive a Christmas card either. The only ever and I had actually suppressed it, but we hope not to experience again...
Its only the first week of January and we have already received the usual requests, in fact more this year as everyone seems to be feeling the pinch in the UK and want a freebie. Why is it that those with fat UK salaries, comfie pensions and little mortgages are the first in the queue and never offer us anything. (Of course, our hand to mouth existence doesn't compare but we are expected to provide!!). I love having visitors, don't get me wrong, but our real friends always offer to pay or contribute to the household.
Thought I would add to this, we had a vineyard and therefore of course all wine was free and as we have a gite are asked when it is "free" as they would be happy to use it that week. After a couple of years (year 1, 22 sets of non paying guests in a 6 month period) you learn to say the gite is available at this price...that you are too busy to come to the airport and so they need to hire a car and state that your car is unavailable. If told that they would be happy to stay in the house you mention that on their way from the airport they will need to buy....and if driving, give them a list of shopping that you state should contribute to the cost of them staying. It all sounds very grumpy (I am) but many of these did not want to visit as much when we were in the UK. Nowadays those that understand the rules are very welcome and we have a great time. As we both work for a living we also end up explaining that if we took off a few days for everybody that comes over it would amount to about six weeks and surely they would not want us to add them to the list of guests we wish hadn't visited - cue oh no of course not us, how could you think?
Oh dear me Liz!
Has it really taken you 10 years to establish the mentality of visitors? You must be very patient and forgiving. Regrettably, after the first 5 years or so here we made a list of "givens" that visitors (particularly the Brits) appear to have firmly engraved in their minds, not in any particular order of priority:
Anyone who moves outside of the UK to live must be affluent and quite probably evading taxes
Phone calls to France from England cost a fortune but from France to England are dirt cheap
Petrol/diesel costs next to nothing in France so all the ferrying about in your car must be free
Wine is unbelievably cheap and needs to be consumed in large quantities to assist you in emptying your cave
There is nothing wrong with one visitor keeping you up until the small hours whilst the other one goes to bed early, only for you to be met the next morning with an early riser and a late sleeper
Most visitors expect to be entertained by you during the day (worst one of all for the hostess)
Despite most people complaining about being poverty stricken, they always seem to be on holiday whenever you suggest a visit to them
Family gatherings are always at your place never theirs
The continual devaluation of the pound - officially or otherwise - (which often means your reduced income) comes as a shock to them and must surely be exaggerated by you
No doubt other members of SFN could add a load more, but this assure you that you are not alone, even if it is a case of misery loves company!
"like"
This subject has been discussed here (and on many other anglo web sites. From somewhere I collected a set of rules for guests which I put up here for you entertainment
FISH AND GUESTS GO OFF AFTER THREE DAYS
There has been a great deal of internet chatter over here on forums for ex-pats (or should that be fora?), about the behaviour of guests. Let me say here and now, for the avoidance of any doubt, that we have not suffered from any of this but there is evidence in plenty of those who have. This also does not apply to people renting gites that have paid for the privilege.
A misconception is that we, who live here, are lonely and miss the company of fellow Brits. Even taking into account the number of Brits who now live in France and the many chances there are to meet them, we have chosen this life because we like it and perhaps, after a life of “being involved” we are happy to be on our own.
We start with the very worst type of “popper” This is one who calls in because they “happen to be passing”, who just arrives at the front door and says “We happen to be passing and thought we would drop by and could we stay a couple of nights?” This is unforgivable and assumes that your “hosts” do nothing with their lives other than wait around waiting for you to arrive. I know one person living over here who used to keep a suitcase by the front door so that, in the event of an unexpected arrival, they could say “sorry but we are going away today for a weeks holiday – what a pity we did not know you were coming.”
RULE ONE: Do not just arrive. Wait to be invited, even invite yourselves but be sure that your stay is expected, anticipated with pleasure, and limited in extent.
Arriving down to breakfast, late, and sitting at the table waiting to be served (as has been reported) is not the way to behave. Your hosts are not on holiday, they have lives of their own and some may even be working, so consider them. You are not staying in a hotel but with friends. Help and be involved.
RULE TWO: Fit in with your hosts lifestyle and timetable – do not expect them to change their routine for you.
Some “guests” expect to be picked up from the airport and returned there after their holiday. This not only takes your host hours of travelling (remember they have to come and collect you and get back home after picking you up and dropping you off, which can also cost a lot of money in fuel and parking).
RULE THREE: If being picked up from an airport or railway station, at least offer to pay for the parking and the fuel. Better still, why not hire a car yourselves so that your hosts are not inconvenienced and you can have independence while staying at their home.
Most people, who live here, in France, have been to the adjacent tourist sites many times and may not wish to go again. They also may not have the time. So be independent, go out under your own steam but be clear where you are going and what time you will be back. There is nothing worse than your hosts preparing a meal and then finding that you are late back because you could not tear yourself away from the beach.
RULE FOUR: Do not expect your hosts to act as tour guides. If you have hired a car then you can do what you want when you want. It may be that you can borrow your hosts’ car but if so, be prepared to pay the insurance excess and be aware of what to do in the event of an accident.
Your holiday home is your host’s home. They may be very happy to cook meals for you; however it would be a nice gesture if you offered to cook alternative meals yourselves. Clear the table, fill the dishwasher do not leave your hosts to do it while you sit out and enjoy the weather.
RULE FIVE: you are staying in a friend’s house – not a hotel. Do not expect a hotel service.
Do not expect a free holiday. Do not be like the person who came to stay, offered nothing financially in return, did not even take their hosts out to dinner, and then demand payment for something you brought over for them from the UK. Remember that many who live here came out when the Euro was above 1.40 and now, with probably the same sterling income, your hosts are only getting 1.12 or thereabouts. One idea would be to volunteer to set up a kitty to cover the costs of your stay and keep it topped up.
RULE SIX: Offer to pay for a shopping expedition, take them out for a meal at least once a week. Offer to contribute to fuel if you do get taken out for the day. A free holiday is one thing but a holiday that costs your hosts a lot of money is unlikely to be repeated.
Listen to your hosts. Life in France is very different to that in the U.K. If you wish to go to a market, remember that they start at 0800 and finish at noon. It is no good arriving down at 10:30, having a lazy breakfast and then deciding to go to a market at 1100 as it will be closing. Restaurants often are not open for new diners after 1330 so do not always expect a meal to be served if you arrive late. Restaurants are usually closed on Sunday evenings and Mondays – not a good time to plan to go out!
RULE SEVEN: Plan your days in advance, be aware of the life style here, and do not always expect your hosts to want to go with you (markets for us are for shopping not for tourism).
Your hosts live in France but this does not necessarily mean that they have gone native. However, some folks feel the need constantly to denigrate France as a country and the French as a people. Your hosts will have a different view, accepting that there are good and bad things about the French and living in France. They know, they live there, you do not.
RULE EIGHT: - Leave your anti French prejudices at home!
When staying for a few days, there will be the need to wash some clothes. It is not a good idea to put your dirty stuff in the host’s laundry basket and expect it to be done for you.
RULE NINE: - Ask your host if you may use the washing machine. They will probably offer to do your washing with their own anyway.
The kitchen can be an area of the most stress. Many people feel that the kitchen is their “zone” and dislike other trespassing in it however, when your hosts are cooking for their guests, help with such things as vegetable preparation may well be welcomed. Offer and, if the offer is accepted, do it.
RULE TEN: - Do not invade your hosts’ space unless invited (and that includes the bathroom). Offer to help and even offer to cook a meal or two during your stay so as to give your host an evening off out of the kitchen. Offer to fill the washing up machine but not to empty it – things put back in the wrong place can be an irritant!
Funnily enough I have an almost reversed problem. I live in SW France, so could be attractive, but my family are not travelers - Mum now too elderly and poorly to travel, brother with no passport, brother whose wife doesn't like me, sister who doesn't like flying, sister who is a single mother therefore not well off (although she has been once and is saving to come again in 2013). My visitors are mainly friends who are very appreciative and insist on contributing and taking out for a meal at least once depending on the length of stay.
I guess we can't have it all ways!
Fortunately, we do not have this problem.
At the moment all our friends seem tied to the UK because of very elderly dogs, or family spread all over the world and they have to take their holidays to see them. We would like to see more of our friends, because when we stay with them in UK we always take wine and also take them out for a meal.
We also point out, if they are flying into Lyon, that there are car hire agencies at the airport!
Emily, there are sites for working holidays. There are many young people who would love to cone and do some work for you for two or three weeks in exchange for their bed and board.
Saying NO can be the hardest thing of all, but you have to do it to save your sanity! Funny how immediately you have a house in France, the whole world thinks they can invite themselves to stay and then treat it as a five star hotel which is completely GRATUIT. though have to say never quite had the scenario described by James below, and he hasn't even got here yet!!!!!!!!!!!!!
They're on holidays at the moment unfortunately and I don't want to "beg" their time. I'm so afraid of a falling out as I've already had one with my other brother. Hard when they're so far away. I'll ask him to schedule a time on his return though. You're right. I need to share it soon.
Well getting right on target with freeloders.
I am still wondering why people are so mean to others?
Are they aware of how unattractive meaness really is?
One of the meanest things you can do...I feel is to deliberatly forget
to reply to people if they have e mailed or telephone. Does anyone write letters
in this day and age?
Back to freelodding....An ex friend of ours came to stay just before we opened and
declared that the breakfast was wonderful and enjoyed dinner
They arrived with some pillows which she offered to get for me and I paid for them.
They made another declaration....that they wished that they did not have to leave
as they were enjoying everything so much. The big dissapointment was in the morning when
I heared a huge crashing sound coming from their suite.
Her husband had opened all 4 windows across the rooms and a gust of wind sent lots of
things crashing to the floor from mantlepiece and bedside table. Several nice pieces had come to the end of their life.
I can not recall him saying sorry.
If it were me I would have been so embaressed and sorry
My check book would have come out and I would made sure that I covered the
cost of the damage.....and plus.
What kind of people are these
.
Can I recommend putting any visitors into an annexe or if possible separate house? Luckily I have a cottage about 1k away which I bought for less than £2k about 40 years ago and it's ideal! In Brittany anyway we tend not to get visitors in the winter. It's very quiet and can be quite spooky. Additionally there are frequent crashes on a nearby bridge when drivers end up in the stream and come for assistance at 1am. I discourage visitors in the summer which leaves the spring and autumn! Above all don't make them too comfortable, and make rules like a Blackpool landlady- out after breakfast and back in the early evening! One person I know puts "don't" post it notes all over their place! Make them pay to take you out to good restaurants you can't usually afford too! Also don't forget to ask them to bring good marmalade, aged cheddar etc.
Thanks Emily. I know it's not their fault. My other brother (son's nearly 18) was very unreasonable after our parents died and I always kept up with my nephew with whom I have a wonderful relationship.
Before the Great Recession I hosted a lot of my family covering all their costs here in France but with the cave in of our investments, I now forewarn my relatives when they say they are coming, that I can no longer pay for everyone's European vacation. Hence, they will have to pay for the gas, road tolls, train fares, entrance fees and meals outside the house when we are taking them around to all the chateaux, cathedrals, & Paris. I don't mind being a chauffeur, tour guide and translator but I really think it's too much for them to assume I will pay all their costs here in France. Two of my relatives and one old friend have come. They have paid their own costs without grumbling ---at least not to me. They still get a free hotel, breakfast and dinner included. I also used to go to CDG to meet them but now if they can't find their way to Orléans with my directions, they shouldn't be traveling outside the US. The three that have come are seasoned travelers so that wasn't a problem.
;-D
Peter Mayle said it clearly, you dont realize how many friends and relatives you have,till you own a house in the south of France. That said i could tell about numerous times weve had impossible visits from these type visitors where ive had to ask other expats for suggestions; Demand a pot from day one to cover food and drinks, and when pot is quickly used point out its need of refilling. Tell everyone you dont to guided tours, but if they want maps are available upon request. Use of car if needed requires a full tank of gas reg, or diesel. If you or spouse or both have jobs then guests must respect working hours and the need to get to bed on time.When visit planned is more than a week, offer to find a chambre dhotes nearby. Perhaps one must write house rules such as these and post them in each guest room because reading, rather than hearing has a more strong impression. Of course for the few members who respect the imposition and always offer in advance than remove house rules from their room! Cheers