Hi
I am new to this site. I moved over to live in France this year but have been coming over for the last 8 years.
I am a qualified Sports Massage Practitioner...level 4 Diploma and a member of the Sports Massage Association in the UK and have recently spent 2 months in the UK working at both the Olympic and the Paralympic Games.
I have been practising Sports massage for 6 years and have been working at local football league and rugby league clubs before coming out to France. I served for 20 years in the navy so have a Naval pension.
I was hoping, when I got here permanently, to find some part time work in my field through the Auto Entrepreneur system but having looked into it over the past few weeks it looks virtually impossible for my qualification to be recognised here.
I speak very basic French at the moment which is obviously not a help.
I have tried to get work on the ski slopes through a UK company to gain experience of working in France, with no success.
I can now understand why this site...Surviving France...exists!!! and just how far the French are behind the UK system concerning Remedial Sports Therapy.
Has anybody on this site tried to get into the system with the same qualifications and any information or advice would be helpful before attempting the Auto Entrepreneur route.
I know that the sports massage profession is regulated and it sounds to me like you have to have a physiotherapy/degree level qualification just to practice sports massage.
In that case I was wondering whether to even bother filling in the application for Auto Entrepreneur and being told at the end of that my qualifications are not recognised.
Thank you
Steve
Good luck my friend, I have worked with the Detroit Red Wings, ( a Pro-Hockey Team in Detroit) In every ski area in the United States, I have my Bachelors in Physical Therapy and I speak basic French. The best way to go is to find sports events and volunteer and give gratuit massages, then charge an very cheap price as in France "kini"which we laugh at in the United States is Free here because of the socialized medicine. I have tried every massage here from day spa to ostephothate even if you were a PHD Doctor from the United States to France standards you would need to go back to school for at least two years .. I work on the side while attending school here in France. Its like any business give one good massage to one person they tell three and your business begins . It also helps if you are attractive, caring and good at what you do. :) Good luck and if you ever want to trade I have not had a decent massage since arriving in France.
Merry Christmas.
-Michelle
Steve, I asked my physio during this morning's session. She thinks it is possible but slow to get into your sports massage work here. However the answer might not be the one you really want to have. When she came to France, she had to go through all the issues of getting her qualification validated and so on first. Then she had to take a job as an assistant to an established therapist. She expected that to be for three years but it was longer and even in this practice whilst she is paying 'rent' and some of her income to the man whose practice it is, he still refers to her as his assistant although she never entered into the agreement on such a condition. When she has her own clinic next year and also works for the new health centre part of each day she will be the practitioner in her own right. Whoever then works with (for) her will be an assistant in French terms. Her advice was to find yourself a position in an established practice then find a way out of it into your own practice in the shortest possible time.
Thanks Cecile for your reply.
I think the praticienne de bien etre sounded the best way to go. I will look into it more and try to use this alternative.
Cheers
Steve
Hi Steve
Oh what a shame! I hadn't realised you are so far away! Well good luck... and if you find yourself visiting this region, do let me know... I can't find a decent sports practitioner anywhere!!!
Hi Jo.....thanks very much for your comments.I am based in the Charente area so I think it would be a bit too far for either of us for a sports massage but I can assure you that if it was feasible it would be a good massage and I would definately be able to put a passive stretch on the neck muscle that you required stretching.
Regards Steve
Back to square one and my comments about you relying on the European Qualifications Framework (EQF) and having your qualifications validated here. They don't give a hoot about practical experience, it is what your qualifications(s) enable you to do. You may be required to do some kind of course to learn the rules and law, etc, especially which they consider highly central to any profession (before they are then entirely disregarded by many practitioners, but that is another story). However, unless you get your French up to standard you may find it tough going. Back a few points and what Cate said, try going through those necessary hoops before setting up ans an AE, if you are successful find a couple of clients, assess the potential and then go for AE. Good luck with it all.
Ben, in my case it took 3 years to qualify for my Dip. level 4 which is recognised by one of the governing bodies the SMA in the UK as I completed my Dip. whilst working in the Navy.
I completed the theoretical side (anatomy and physiology) examinations whilst on my leave periods from the navy at Nottingham University.
In addition to this I worked for 12 months at a professional football club in the English 1st division. I also completed 100 hours of practical massage at different venues on a voluntary basis working for charities around the UK which included the London marathon, the Great North run, the Manchester 10k and many more events around the country which was a requirement for the course.
Whilst serving in the Navy I worked voluntarily with the medical officers onboard ship with crew, special forces and marines returning from exercise as this was the only way I could attain the hours of practice required in order to gain the qualification so I don't think that your comment of 1 year training for this qualification is quite accurate.
Regarding client liability I am at present under the UK banner insured for a maximum of ÂŁ5 million pounds with professional and public liability with a well known UK provider.
As for your comments regarding my qualifications NEVER being recognised in France then I'm afraid that would be their loss. If I went to any other country where sport is in its element these qualifications would be recognised instantly.
Also the statistics from the London 2012 Olympic and Paralympic games showed that Sports massage for what it is... and I know because I was there in the Olympic Village treating the elite athletes from all over the world. The massage department in the polyclinic was the busiest of all the medical staff throughout both the Olympics and Paralympic games including the physiotherapy department...statistics supplied by LOCG.
I love everything about France which is why, after 10 years of visiting is why I decided to make my home here. The only thing which is not good in France is the bureaucracy.
By the way I am not desperate to seek work in France I do the sports massage because I enjoy it and I think that the time and effort I put into the qualification (not 1 year) would be a waste.
Ben, no she did not do a university course. Also, no it was not four years, in fact she said it was three years with a lot of the time divided by working with a practitioner as well as the class training. If you read above in my exchange you will see that we did discuss it. But she has the Dutch equivalent of what is required here as a 'kinésithérapeut', is a member of the Dutch association before moving to France, now member of the French association, most certainly does national health practice, for instance me, but otherwise would agree on the insurances, she has a personal liability one and when the building work on her own practice is ready will need a particularly expensive one for the installations required.
Sports massage as a single discipline studied does not exist but sports therapy as a practice is beginning to fall into place obviously. Our friend who is a professional beach volleyball player (don't ask, we laughed too!) and most of the year a sports teacher at adult centres has game injuries and has a good one who he and his sports teacher wife use and recommended to me. However, private and very expensive...
In France sports massage as a singular discipline doesn't exist, outside the professional sportsclubs. But even then these are people who had at least 3 years of training followed by 1-2 years of practical training in a practice. Like everything medical in France this is heavy regulated. You would, for example, need to take a professional liability insurance and to obtain it you need to show your qualifications etc. And then there's the inter professional organisation, "Conseil de l'ordre des masseurs kinésithérapeutes" who keeps a very sharp eye on everyone trying to get busy in the job. Some of the treatments are covered by the national health insurance.... if performed by a state-qualified practitioner and so on and so on...
To put it bluntly, your UK qualifications will never be recognized in France because their simply entirely different and cover only a part of those in the extensive French system. The only thing you might realistically hope for is, after having improved your French considerably, to get accepted in (and under the cover of) a French practice in the more rural area's were the medical service are currently in the process of declining......
@ Brian: talk to your physiotherapist (a compatriot) and she will most probably tell you that her study in physiotherapy is about equivalent to the French education with respect to subjects covered and would have taken her 4 years of full bachelor training and practical traineeships. Nothing to do with the probably one year for the UK Sports Massage Practitioner (no offence Stephen)
Thanks Cate, I asked you because you come from an area of work that nobody is in thus far and it all helps - plus I think you have been at it a tad longer than many other people who are either fairly recent and certainly for those trying to find their way in.
To point 2 AE. I agree on the first point. But no it does not transform in micro enterprise after three years. We believed that and were both preparing to go that way this year until people, for instance James, corrected that belief. The period 'sans charges' though does end then, so the principle of saving it until up and running makes a lot of sense.
Cate, she is qualified by a professional body in the the Netherlands that may be degree equivalent, but was not issued by a university. We talked about studying and she studied languages when she did go to university and chose not to do a three year physio when she changed course. But that is the point of equivalence and why what they may say here and elsewhere do not correspond to one person's way of thinking (bureaucrats especially) but in the real world are 'the same' (OK, doesn't really exist, but I hope you know what I mean).
The PhD thing is a jobsworth bureaucrat who tried the 'no foreign qualifications recognised line', I gave her a printout of the EQF (French, of course) plus the date when France entered into it and silence reigned thereafter. However, Cate, you would be a seriously good member of the Working in France group on the basis of the way you gave this advice. Please!
....a Danish friend of mine who ived in the south of France for many years, got her degree there, then met an English man, yes, it happened to moi aussi, someone went on rugby tour to wonderful Copenhagen many moons ago, but that's another story....as, she moved to the UK, she has had to 're-do' her degree, as the French degree is not acknowledged in the UK, and her French degree is supposedly better than the English degree - sometimes thing do not make a lot of sense!
Hi Stephen, your qualification can not be recognised because you are not a physio, and your job basically does not exist here!! Physios do rehabilitation and really little massage. I’m a massage therapist and reflexologist (holistic and deep tissue) I practice freelance. I’m AE under praticienne de bien être. France is slugging a bit behind on the complementary therapies and massage front!! But there are no reason why you will be able to practice here, doing massage sportif. If you are lucky enough to find open minded osteos, or sports centres… Who can recommend you at first, then the word of mouth will Do the rest. Good luck.
Hello Steve, Although I am no where near as qualified as you (I have a diploma in aromatherapy massage from London), I have already learned that it would be difficult to practice here as I could in the English-speaking countries. There seems to be nothing recognized between kines (physical therapists) and aestheticians who work at spas (worthless, unless you don't mind spending too much for some petting!). I had an appointment with my local (Grenoble) Chambre de Commerce and was told my project was interesting, but they really didn't know what to do with me. My solution (temporary, I hope) was to create an association (non-for-profit) who's goal is to support the health and wellness of the Anglophone community here through aromatherapy and massage. There are organizations for people practicing 'massage bien-etre' but I don't think it's worth belonging to them because I after trying around quite a bit, I don't want to be associated with them (not very professional, low training requirements, etc.). To say that French is behind is an understatement! Good luck and let us know if you come up with a solution! (I think one of the groups on this site has started a related discussion about this topic...)
Amy in Grenoble
waterfallwellness.net
Hi Stephen
I am a sports therapist too. I registered as an auto entrepreneur under the banner of "bien etre". This doesn't define what we do, and you can't get insurance for anything other than "medicin doux" or "soft" treatments!!! I'm not trying to set up a business here like I had in the UK though. What I would be interested in, though, are your contact details so I can get a decent massage here!!! I have visited three kines here and for all their supposed qualifications, they have absolutely no idea how to perform remedial massage of any sort!!! And one of them couldn't even distinguish between the muscles in my neck that needed stretching!
Maybe you could "friend" me and send me your contact details please? Thanks!
Hello Stephen, following on from your comments, I chatted to a French friend of mine who is a trained Sports masseuse, working in the UK. She confirms that in France you have to be a kinesitherapeute to practice sports massage -5 years of study after A level and this includes 'reeducation of the body', as they call it. Have you tried NARIC to get your qualifications recognised? might be an idea... good luck. is it a regulated profession?
My physio also does massage for wellbeing and that is recognised - she has a concession on a large campsite next door to her house even, legitimately recognised and all.
Yes forward the comments. As for recognition of qualifications it is an uphill fight at times. My wife and I both have PhDs and have been told more than once they don't count here, which is the opposite of the truth. Put questions in the WiF group and possibly others will give useful answers.
Best of luck with it all.
Thanks for your post and the information.I have read your 'Working in France' group and it sounds interesting but complicated as is the French way.
Myself and a fellow member from the Sports Massage Association (SMA) are at present voicing our opinions through the SMA ....she currently runs her own business on the ski slopes in Morzine where I am hoping to get work next season. We are being helped by a solicitor/physiotherapist in the UK who is also a member of the SMA to say that our qualifications should be recognised here in France.Whether any notice is taken of our concerns is another matter.
If you dont mind I would like to forward your comments onto my associate as she herself has been fighting to get recognition of our qualification for some time now.
Regarding Sports Massage, over the last 2 years, it has emerged in the UK as a separate skill from physiotherapy and nearly all football teams in the premiership and championship employ at least one sports massage therapist to work alongside the physiotherapists and team doctors. The recent Olympic games was the first time that sports massage has been used under the medical banner working alongside physios, chiropractors, sports doctors etc. this is what I mean when I say the French are still behind the UK and the USA and a lot more European countries concerning sports massage. Whether we get anywhere with our pursuit of having our qualifications recognised as in the UK may take time.
In the meantime it looks like if I want to enter the Auto Entrepreneur system it would have to be on the massage for wellbeing...the same as what my associate has had to do on the ski slopes. But this does not define what we were trained to do and what our UK diploma states.
Thanks for replying and any additional info you can provide will be useful.
In the meantime we will keep you informed of any development with our quest.
Firstly Stephen, take a look in the 'Working in France' group that I set up to help with such issues. You may find some answers there rather than a long message here. Secondly, being told your qualification is not valid is not the most unusual thing to happen and that should not deter you. It may simply mean you have to use the guidance in the WiF group, register with the appropriate body for your profession and then do a bit of 'retraining' but then you may not. French functionaries too often go off on a trajectory of their own that bear no relationship to EU regulations but it is up to you to sort out the error of their ways.
The decision whether to grant you AE status or not is NOT dependent on your qualifications but what you say you do and whether or not it fills the criteria for inclusion. If you are told otherwise, then you are being misled. Once you have had a look in the group fire away with more questions and we shall see if anybody has precise answers for you.
I shall be off to my physiotherapist in a couple of hours: a) she is not French but Dutch, b) she does not have a French qualification, c) it is not at degree level and d) her French is fluent. She does do sports therapies as well, I believe there is little distinction between the qualifications here. Also, they have some of the most advanced sports medicine in Europe in France, the Clinique de Sport in Bordeaux has some of the world's top specialists in their branches of sport medicine and therapy. Those people obvious do have degrees but do not be mislead by that.