Could we perhaps have forgotten what the word style means?
For instance I could never describe Boris or Trump as stylish but I could
definitely say that the previous president of America had style.
So what does style mean? Has it changed its identity to garish, clownlike?
1 Like
The problem Peter is that you cannot always accept that it is a woman.
It is a very handy disguise which has been used by terrorists to avoid capture.
Whilst you are expressing your point of view, as a woman I can tell you that I find it not just silly, but extremely offensive.
Yes, travel broadened my mind Pete, so I had no probā accepting other cultural ānormsā, i.e. a Western lady in Saudi had to have her legs and arms covered, and a head scarf was expected, not a problem!
If moslem ladies choose to be dressed similarly in the West, fine but I find the face being covered, āunsettling and weirdā, in our society.
Things change, I was in Barcelona on one of my boats 45yrs ago, went to go into town, with no shoes on, I was stopped by a Guarda at the port gates, and told to go and put shoes on, I didnāt argue, just went and did it, he obviously thought I was being disrespectful.
Yes I thought it was ātrivialā, but Iām on your āpatchā, so, ok 
In our culture women are fighting against male domination and I equally dislike any religion or culture which keeps women subservient.
Any religion which does not have women as equals needs changing.
It is not just religion but culture which keeps women suppressed.
It is a frightening statistic but there was only one prosecution for FGM in UK last year when it is admitted that girls are sent to Africa for this appalling procedure.
It has just been admitted that young girls have been given visas and allowed to go to Pakistan and Bangladesh on the pretext of holidays to marry against their will.
I cannot believe that you agree with these parts of others culture, but there is continuing pressure to accept Sharia law in UK and the wearing of veils by Islamic women in our society is part of that pressure.
I knew young men who went to Ampleforth and I just hope that they were not abused there.
Peter Ball was my Bishop before I left the C of E.
Magdalen laundries, incest in impoverished Irish homes and girls forced to bear the children conceived as a result and then locked up as being morally inept was a result of the complete domination of the Irish Republic by Roman Catholic church.
I will continue to fight against the oppression of women by any group, especially where my culture is being eroded by immigrant minorities.
3 Likes
I make no assumptions, and if a woman is wearing a burka through her own choice then , in that respect, fine. However often a woman is told she has to wear a burka and that is not right.
Actually Peter my employer does tell me what to wear for work as does one of my hobbies, but that is for health and safety reasons
I am with the others who do not like to see peoples faces covered when it isnāt necessary be it with motor cycle helmets, balaclavas and, yes , burkas
1 Like
Then why not start a new thread, Tim? This one is about Boris. Not France, Not Germany, Not anywhere.
Think that is ott Pete 
1 Like
Please explain to me what I have said that is offensive, Jane. I take care not to offend in my posts, but I am always willing to acknowledge if I have used offensive language, especially to a woman I have never met.
How is it OTT, Bill? What part of it do you disagree with, and why? I value your opinion as a friend. Pete 
1 Like
Where did I say that their husbands have told them to wear a burka? I have a lot of Muslim friends especially women ,I donāt need telling how intelligent etc they are. They range from one who chooses to not cover her head at all , to just wearing a hair covering, to wearing a full veil . However it is disingenuous to presume that every woman wearing a burka has made that choice herself , some will have been influenced by family, peer group, Imman , mosque etc
And please donāt tell me that I look at a woman in a Burka and think she is a terrorist in drag ,I donāt although last week I would have thought ā Bloody Hell she must be hot In that,ā
2 Likes
No doubt that a woman wearing a burqa is possibly very intelligent, proud etc, but I donāt know Her or Her circumstances, I donāt automaticly see a terrorist, I see a Lady, who does not conform to Western norms of behaviour, as western womem had to conform when in Islamic countries.
I donāt think any of us despise them, or quake or cringe.
I have enjoyed the hospitality of Muslim men in Saudi, not women, but mixed company in Scotland, where my sons best mate was (a very big) black Moslem lad!
Son of a black Sergeant in the Tank Regiment.
1 Like
Everyone who is commenting about this subject, both on here and generally in the media, needs to educate themselves. You are all talking about the āburkaā when that is not what you mean. The burka is worn almost exclusively in Afghanistan and I doubt if any of you have seen anyone wearing one in the UK or France. What you are talking about is a niqab. Here is a helpful picture.
1 Like
Your right Mandy!
1 Like
I agree with everything you say Nellie. It is wrong to presume/make assumptions about why women choose what to wear. Or about what choices are ārightā or āwrongā. Thatās why choice, within the law, is free to all, Muslim women (and men, of course).
I agree too about coercive control of women by men. We would probably agree that this is possibly as much a problem in the Christian world as it is in the Islamic one. Reference #metoo and the concerning rise in domestic violence in UK.
As for a burqa being hotā¦ it depends what she is wearing underneath that voluminous, flappy tent I suppose 
Anyway, Iāve said my piece and am ready to move onā¦ thanks to all who have contributed to the discussion so farā¦ BoJo should be delighted, he has really put a stick in the nid de frelonā¦ 
1 Like
Have deffo seen the burqa in London, Mandy, quite a āstatement fashion itemā in parts of London. Sort of āup yours, darling!ā sort of thing 
LOL, not you Mandy ! 
Maybe you have but that is not what the controversy is all about.
Itās this kind of ignorance of other cultures/races/religions that fuels racism and xenophobia.
I agree with that totally. I donāt think I am ignorant of other cultures and religions though, Mandy. I was for several years chairman of an active Faith Forum in UK where all faiths had representation, and I have served for over 20 years as a chaplain in hospitals and prisons across the South-East of England, working on a multifaith and ecumenical basis.
The basis of all faiths is awareness of our profound ignorance, our proneness to error, our willingness to submit to a higher power and our duty of concern and harmlessness to each other, to all living things, and to our mother earth from which we spring, and to which we shall return. All religions are basically the same.
You obviously are knowledgeable with regard to religion and even you have confused the burqa with the niqab. You have mentioned the burka throughout this thread and I know it seems like Iām splitting hairs but how can we have a discussion about a subject when we are getting basic facts wrong?
Some behavioural norms, Bill:
Donāt spit in the street.
Donāt urinate in the street.
Donāt push into a queue, wait your turn.
Give up your seat on the bus or train to a heavily pregnant woman, or a parent with a small child
Donāt unnecessarily invade someone elseās personal space
Apologise for accidental bumps or brushes against others
Donāt eat food while walking about in public places (except perhaps holiday ice-cream or fish-and-chips, after all, itās a holidayā¦)
Donāt drop litter
Donāt talk with your mouth full.
Gentlemen, remember to zip upā¦
Some idiots would include donāt suckle your infant the way nature intended in case you āgive offenceā to the small-minded individual who canāt resist the temptation to interfereā¦
1 Like
Yup Pete, 