Believe whatever you want to believe, check available scientific evidence before accepting nonsense as fact!

I knew a bloke not so long ago, whose delight it was, to drive close enough, to those he thought looked suspiciously eco, “hippie”, or Boris’s “Crustie”? who were walking by the roadside, to try to make them feel scared, and unwelcome.
I don’t ever want to see anyone scared in that way again, or to see that horrible silly smile on an aggressors face.
The people who use least of the available resources, are today’s best heroes, and must be treated as such, recognised as such. If you cannot manage to live well, and comfortably, without wearing out the planet, its time to learn new ways. Begin today!
If you live any kind of eco life, can you describe it now? I’d like to know how many eco warriors or crusties are with SF.
For myself, I would like to discover HOW MUCH is the reasonable average plus …sort of amount of dosh…would be a useful sum for any individual to chip in to the French health system. I’m not …as millions of others are not …hoping to get “free stuff”.
Assumptions made to that end are as mindless, as they are usually, groundless.

I don’t know about the ecological life, but over the whole course of my first 21 years of life I can confidently say that I took no more than about 100 car journeys, perhaps about 50 trips by steam train to the seaside and to/from London/Birmingham.

Like most youngsters I walked or rode a bike to school, on errands or paper-rounds, doing greengrocery deliveries at the weekends, or to the few leisure destinations. We travelled by electric tram as a family on high days and holidays, or to see Father Christmas in the city centre.

Very few upwardly mobile workers had, or aspired to owning a car. Group fishing trips were by ‘charabanc’ into the countryside, and everyone passed a hat round for the driver.

I have a folk memory of hard times and subsistence living during WW2, growing own seasonal vegetables and fruit, the latter was always just an occasional treat, never year round, unless preserved for a special occasion. Collecting coal spillage between the railway lines, in an old pram.

I could manage like that again quite well, and would relish the challenge. I am quite a hardy type, though I’ve gone soft. I wear old clothes all the time. My few ‘best’ clothes are a mish-mash of s/h garments that don’t match, but are well cut and of good cloth. I have almost always made do with three pairs of shoes, and wear them for up to 20 years. But I look after them.

It might be a bit if a wrench to give up the internet, but I could manage without it, no trouble. I did so for 55 years before it was retailed. Not a warrior, but an old trooper, maybe.

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I refuse to be a “warrior” anything, as far too aggressive a concept. I think most reasonable people these days are more conscious of the issue and try to take what little steps they can. We certainly do. But then we are lucky to have the time to do so. So follow the reduce, reuse, recycle sort of approach. We live simply, and aren’t interested in flash cars or boats or that sort of stuff. We grow much of our food, and we make things rather than buying them. If we do buy things we try to be as ethical as possible about what and where and how we buy stuff. And we minimise the fuel and water we use. And then because this lifestyle means we live well within our income we give the rest away to charities each year. No doubt there’s a lot more we could do, but this suits us.

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Two beautiful responses, PG and Jane, so much to think on, so many decisions to be made. Aggression? Sometimes essential in defence I think. I’ve discussed the idea with pacifists.
There is no “just war”? You will always feel it best to stand back and permit whatever pain/destruction/ any one attempts to achieve, including that which may destroy the planet?
I have no conclusions, only questions so far!

The only real issue I have with ER is the way they protest which is often dangerous with a massive ‘knock-on’ cost to the police etc.

If everyone simply changed their lives (which isn’t hard) they’d be no need for ‘eco warriors’.

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You are thinking about Brits and Europeans, only? Eco warriors, are global!
https://www.bbc.co.uk/bbcthree/article/c5c82250-9aad-4533-9a3f-43cf37e27d46

Even a small part of the devastation, said to be brought to the planet by human activity is vastly greater than anything achieved in any wars yet experienced. The people responsible, including trump, show almost no sign of change or remorse. How long can this be tolerated?

As along as people vote for them, it’s that simple. If Brazil had a different leader then maybe the Amazon rain forest wouldn’t continue to be destroyed.

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Is that an expression of Perfect Faith, in democracy, Tim?
To solve all the planets ills?

OK - here I’ll be shot down in flames. There is mass hysteria going on at the moment - I think people have lost all common-sense. We ‘re-cycle’ what we’re told to, put it all in the right bins - only to discover that it then gets put back together and ‘shipped’ off somewhere - without our knowledge. So ‘they’ have lied to us over the years. Seems as though the polysterene which ‘never’ degrades - apparently now does so after 30 years or so.
Please don’t mis-understand me. I know recycling is good - but we trusted ‘them’ - and see the result. Man made climate change is not proven. The earth moves around the sun over a period of 26,000 years, and the sun is in orbit through the solar system. We’ve had little ice ages, and vines have grown in the UK as far north as Cumbria. Yes, changes need to be made - but this XR nonsense is mass hysteria and funded by ???
It would appear, if anyone on here would care to dig behind the hysteria, as I have, that this is an anti-capitalist movement, with very dodgy people behind it. It is not what we are being brain-washed to believe.
And I’d take these people far more seriously if they protested in China - go and try it in Tianamen Square, or in India - both huge producers of pollution. Any of you know how many coal fired power stations China is building ? Any of you know how much the UK ‘contributes’ to the so called ‘carbon emissions’? I do - but maybe I’d not be believed on here.

The main problem with today’s world - hypocrisy; look at the XR lot - look at the plastic they’re using, and leaving behind, as well using DIESEL generators. !!

The real problem - and I’m going to hide after this -
is OVER POPULATION.

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@TigerLily, here’s a radical thought - why doesn’t everyone just reduce their carbon footprint regardless of whether we are responsible for climate change or not. That way towns and cities across the world would have lower pollution levels and we would also preserve natural resources for future generations.:smile:

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Wrong thread, for any dogfights here, @TigerLily ! This is one best effort, at a mustering …of those faint hearted or discouraged…, possibly when facing any dilemma of choice…".is it or isn’t it.".!!. Climate change good…or bad…?!!
Your points of view, as far as I can see, without detailed checking are all, already addressed, by ongoing sci. research and evidence presented, in depth, for any one with enough patience to read it all. and by established sci. orgs.that I have some confidence in.
Probably written this before…
I first heard the ‘worst’ of the situation, around 30 years ago, at a lecture by the then, Bath Uni. Chancellor, I was sad and shocked when he talked about how it was probably already too late to stop the damage.
I never forgot his words. He wasn’t selling anything or promoting or putting down anyone.
“Baron Kearton, Chancellor 1980-1992
Frank Kearton began his career as a chemical process worker at ICI in 1933. As a young chemical engineer he was recruited into Britain’s wartime Atomic Energy Project, and1945 received one of the few OBEs awarded to civilians during the conflict. By 1964, he had risen to the post of Chairman of Courtaulds. In 1966, he was knighted and awarded an Honorary Degree (Doctor of Science) at the University of Bath”
His lecture was the absolute opposite of “hysteria”.

I think of the big powerful nations like USA who could do something about it but don’t, as largely profit/growth orientated. . Opinions without responsible scientific back up and evidence, are …for me…worthless.

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Wrong thread, for any dogfights here,

Oh! Does that mean you can only post if you agree with the thread and are an Eco Warrior?

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Well that’s me out then! :rofl:

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And me

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Bit harsh Jeanette…opinions on a forum are very important and valued. We all have them and can express them.
On the other hand facts, figures/ statistics and statements may need backing up (not our opinions)

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I don’t doubt we are facing extinction in the longer term and a very rocky ride in the not too distant future. Of course overpopulation plays a massive part but as has been said on these threads before it is the wealthier countries that are vastly more polluting.

There does not seem to be much appetite for it but the whole “go forth and propagate” ethos of religion needs to be tackled.

The fact cannot be denied though that we are facing a climate/species emergency.

Maybe when things have got even worse there will still be large swathes of people vigorously denying this because the truth is too grim to contemplate?

It is well documented that climate change denial is massively well funded. https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/oct/10/vested-interests-public-against-climate-science-fossil-fuel-lobby

I do wonder though whether some of the ire reserved for extinction rebellion stems from another cause. We are not only facing extinction due to the exhaustion of the earth’s reserves but also due to AI.

In many ways artificial intelligence is making us (jobs/intelligence/autonomy/agency) increasingly obsolete. Is it a surprise that people are feeling twitchy and defensive?

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I don’t think it can ever be underestimated how much the ‘war machine’ brings massive devastation and destruction to people to families to communities to wildlife to our planet…

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And @Anglozone
No. :grin: I suppose not well thought out as a topic title! There are already two or more other threads…for discussions about the truth, or lack of it, in current climate change science. So whether it is real or not, that the planet is close to an unstoppable down hill run, now might be discussed there.
I was thinking more about a life style, and that for most of my own life, those people who chose to live frugally or with protection of the environment, as a central idea in their lives, and abandon all the most usual social goals of better house, car, fashion kit, holidays etcetc, consumerism as any important source of contentment…they have not in my experience had the respect they deserve.
I suppose, comparing world leaders as examples might illustrate that…
.Compare Trump and his colossal consumerism, I’ve visited trump Tower AND Mar el thingy in Palm Beach? (no! Not by choice! It was supposedly a surprise treat and meant kindly!)…compare him to Uruguay’s former president,
"Jose “Pepe” Mujica, was dubbed the “world’s poorest president” for good reason.
A former Tupamaros guerrilla fighter in the 1960s and '70s, Mujica was shot multiple times and spent 14 years in jail in harsh, isolated conditions. When he was elected Uruguayan president in 2009, Mujica donated 90 percent of his presidential salary to charity and ditched the lavish presidential palace, opting instead to live in his ramshackle farm with his wife. For the longest time, his sole personal asset amounted to a 1987 Volkswagen Beetle.

Mujica also fearlessly admonished other world leaders for their unfettered allowance of globalization and inequality. Although Mujica left politics earlier this year, his almost mystical reputation as a political leader remains — and we suspect will linger for a while".
See what I mean?
@Anon4076378 wrote the perfect piece! About his kind of non consumerist life and @JJones too, …I was hoping to hear about YOU! And you and you, not to carry on the climate sci. debate.
Eco warriors may be eco without any thought at all, of climate science!

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Sorry everybody…I was thinking way of life …more than the science… the rejection of consumerism, and how people who live in tiny unsmart houses have less respect than those with colossal mortgages …maybe… smart homes big cars etc…
Like @Anon4076378 and @JJones wrote…silly me…the science or lack of it is being discussed on other threads… Oh boo…my bad…MUST be clearer!!!