Believe whatever you want to believe, check available scientific evidence before accepting nonsense as fact!

Exactly so!!
Life styles of the wealthiest…should not be given so much attention, if one cares for the best survival of the planet…so how is it, that it is still unfashionable to be anti consumerist! Feeling sad? You need some shopping?
That’s what will kill us all, ultimately!

This reads like you despise “shoppers” and in your view consumerism will “kill us all ultimately”

Are not the people who buy your art consumers, shoppers if you will, and by extension are you not fuelling that consumerism ?

Edit: Note - This is not a comment about the poster but about the premise put forward in this post. NOT “ad hominem”.


well this seems to be back on track - I gave the original title some thought and think Im an anti consumer. Although in the past I have demonstrated at various rallys (Greenham , Chinese Embassy re Tibet etc ), spent countless Saturdays standing at Dover Docks protesting about Live animal exports and admire those who really live to their Eco Warrior principles.
However in the grand scheme of things I think I am a wuss and while I will always try to be frugal with resources and live without buying “stuff”, I still like (and appreciate) hot water from the tap.


There are different intentions that fuel shopping.

You make a valid point, however, if you take fast fashion for example it cannot be denied it is vastly polluting. The average garment in that industry is worn an average of five times before being chucked and then making its way into landfill (usually).

Art is part of the same insanity. The current art fair model involves plane loads of art (and tonnes of packaging) being flown around the world- repeatedly. Ditto collectors. The number of art fairs continues to proliferate.

Here is an interesting article about this

Of course trade and consumption are inevitable (and can be positive) but we need more sustainable models.


Ideally, the EDF , would accept my work in payment for electricity consumed. I am very glad to be reducing electricity consumption, gradually, hopefully, to zero, I buy electricity, until I can create my own… Small solar projects together with other eco solutions will eventually take over. If everyone reduced their electricity use to perhaps …four times as much as I use, the colossal demands for electic power, would greatly diminish. I think that’s true, I don’t have stats. But I know very few people who use as little as I do.
Buying and selling is an effective way to distribute required/needed goods and services. When goods and services themselves, are permitted to take over as “reasons for living” they become potentially destructive. “Growth” continues… expansion of sales/profits is offered as a way to resolve economic disasters. An encouragement to earn more money, produce more goods etc, and consume more.
There’s no way I can or want to take over lives and force anyone to live as I approve, however, living in ways that are ultimately destructive, can be discouraged. Its perhaps a responsibility that each person, might carry.

You made me laugh, Wendy, not sure what a wuss is, that must be modern speak, but I’m one too.
Thank you to @Anglozone for the stats! I’m going to swat up a bit…

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Sorry if I posted on the wrong thread, probably better here.

An interesting article…




It’s not at all unfashionable to be anti-consumption these days. Quite the opposite in fact.


I suppose, Cat, that might depend quite a lot on personal experience? Maybe on your region, if alternative lifestyles are considered OK or not? The Telegraph seems to present a less approving view of Boris’s Crusties. As long as I can remember, my friends who devoted their lives to biologique living, supplying food/clothes etc that were eco friendly, were always, together with friends, counted as “outsiders” . Im not sociable, I need to get out more! The whole thing could be a wonderful scenario to research. How lovely! To wake up one day and see all those VIPs tricked out in recycled kit instead of duds that have cost xyz0000 Euros/$/££.
eating bio food from local suppliers, no boasting ANYWHERE about big cost big names, big/gold/diamond ANYTHING.
Even dogs and cats are still bred as status items. Poor little buggars.
Whats the matter with Battersea dogs/cats home, and the thousands of animal shelters in france, now?
So depressing. :crying_cat_face:
I have beloved pals in “fashion/beauty” but there are recycle suppliers for that stuff. That’s a bit brighter to think on…

It’s got nothing to do with my region. Things are changing, pushed quite largely by consumers especially younger generations.
Do you mean organic by the way?

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Why do people have to have ‘alternative lifestyles’ to be considered ‘anti consumers’ or ‘eco warriors’?

I think more and more people recognise that you can have a ‘mainstream’ life and act responsibly with regards to the environment, putting labels on the way people live is never a good idea.

Don’t like chems … But no chems probably means death to someone/something… Best to have bio…probably.
Don’t know. I like the article enclosed. Can I trust it?
I’d like to buy nothing, grow everything.

Should be able to, but everything except quinces dies. Not enough sun, but quinces? I could live on em.
Organic can use chems…I probably mean biorganico…?..or maybe… …?
As for style and who lives it and who doesn’t …I hope you are right.
I’m convinced by nothing without stats, I suppose.

There are so many ordinary mass use products, that need to be weeded out by anyone hoping to cease taking part in destroying the planet.
To live a non polluting life means taking the trouble to avoid common use goods.
Who does that and who doesn’t?
That’s the divide.
Not easy, since its legal and profitable to sell many goods that are poison. Packaged in more poison.

Thinking, feeling, guessing…got any evidence?

Evidence for what Jeanette?

Evidence…of what?..
of all the people, that you think are recognising…
.how many is “more and more”, is it enough ? If not how many more do you suppose it’ll take?

More people are turning to vegetarianism or becoming vegan, upcycling is becoming more popular and sales of electric cars are increasing every year. Is it enough, of course not but it will take a generation (or longer) for people’s attitudes to really change.


Hmm…well changes are not brought about by armchair eco warriors…
If the serious scis.are correct, everyone needs to do something, right away!

What’s a scis. ?


Sci. …scientist.
Scis. plural. :smirk_cat: