It seems with Branson, the pundits fired first and then asked the questions. The same was done with Beckham.
If one person is a major shareholder, it is effectively a private business even if it is listed on a stock exchange. Branson wants the UK government to try to save his personal financial empire. The other shareholders donāt want to help, why should we?
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It is a popular misconception that pensions and other benefits for pensioners are some sort of charity handout. THEY ARE NOT! They are an entitlement, paid for with social security contributions during a lifetime of work. The Winter Fuel Allowance no longer exists, but UK pensioners living in France were cheated out of it by a cunning bit of geometeorological trickery.
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He has asked for a secured loan, not a handout which is important.
Also I get the impression that Branson is one of the more personable billionaires - for instance Sugar, by all accounts, can be a right tw*t.
Shugar is small fry in the shark pool, with only about one billion. That must hurt a lot. . . .
Have you got a problem with successful people by any chance, Mike?
However he started, his business acumen has given the opportunity for lots of families to achieve. He could just walk away & let these people become unemployed which would, of course, leave the government, read taxpayer, to support them. That, to me, seems mad. Who in their right minds would turn a net tax payer into a tax burden?
I could understand your attitude a little if the request was for a handout as given to nationalised industries of old but this is a request for a repayable loan, such as the one already made to Easyjet (who owns that?).
It would be easy for Sir B do just say āsod itā & let Virgin Atlantic go, as you say -
so he could just keep his own money, not get the grief & let the employees & their families sign on because if what you say is true, why should he care what happens to the staff?.
I donāt think Stowe is free. 
And if your father was a barrister in 1950ā¦ you came from a certain social class.
So yes, he was privileged.
āStill strugglingā?? Presumably academically?
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Call me Mr Thicky but surely if VA go down then as a major shareholder his notional wealth will take a huge hit?
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You are right, Cat. Stowe is not free, but nobody said it was.
Barristers have always been amongst the higher earners which would have made his father well off.
Getting the bike you wanted for your birthday does not always transfer to a well filled bank account in early life.
I wonder what motivated the young Richard to start the businesses? If he already had lots of money given to him he might not have been as motivated as he obviously was.
He left the UK & stopped paying taxes there about 14 years ago so it would be interesting to know how much personal tax he DID pay when he was a UK resident.
Would the UK benefit if Virgin group ceased to exist altogether?
iām[quote=āMark_Rimmer, post:26, topic:29712ā]
Have you got a problem with successful people by any chance
[/quote]
Iām not sure I follow your logic, but maybe we donāt share the same definition of success.
Seems to me that people like Branson see business as a game of Monopoly, where the object is to win by owning everything on the board they can get their hands on. I donāt see much to admire in that. It just seems like greed, or maybe a way of compensating for an inferiority complex.
Those people are not like old fashioned bosses who owned one business and had an unwritten contract with their employees. In exchange for their loyalty and hard work, the boss recognised that he had an obligation to provide them with jobs for life.
Anyway, I think the greater part of the airline industry is wasteful, destructive and unnecessary, as well as being much too cheap, only making money because aviation fuel is untaxed. The environment will benefit if some of those go out of business.
I admire people who make things, artists, musicians, builders, engineers, scientists, as well as people who provide useful services. Even the hated Bill Gates made his billions by using his own intellectual ability to create useful code, at least initially, though he may have got carried away with his own success.
But I donāt expect you will agree.
How many bilions are you worth, Mark?
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This is another myth. I work with entrepreneurs - many hundreds over the last 30 years or so - and indeed have myself been a serial entrepreneur (I started my first business while still at school, a second at university, and have set up and run a number of my own companies since, most recently supporting other entrepreneurs). Making a lot of money is rarely the main motivation - indeed it is often not important at all.
I think I can take a pretty good guess at what drove the young Branson: surrounded by highly āsuccessfulā family - and friends at his posh schools - but with his poorly understood dyslexia creating feelings of his own failure, my guess is that he wanted desperately to prove himself. Believe me, such feelings are much more powerful drivers than the simple desire for riches.
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Oh, only a couple!
All the people you admire would not survive, let alone flourish, if others did not see their skills & promote them. How many now famous artists died penniless when their creations sell for millions posthumously? All they needed was someone to see their potential. Inventers invent but very few have the skill to move beyond on their own. āDragons Denā is a TV programme that weekly proves this (although even they have been known to miss a good idea!).
You can buy a new car from a car dealer who did not design or build the thing - that was done by a multitude of differently skilled people - but if the car was not sold everyone else in that chain would not have a job for long. Musicians sign with record companies that are run by people who cannot play a note.
Today I repair cars. I donāt design them, I donāt make the bits, I had no involvement in production.
I guess that makes me a parasite leeching on the back of the real talent out there.
I am not well off or even ācomfortableā, but I am content.
I admire Sir Richard for his drive, his compassion & his success. Because of him thousands of others enjoy a lifestyle I would envy & seems to care about his employees.
He has put up his home as collateral which shows a level of commitment rarely seen in many CEOs. All this to keep the business going. This is a strange move for someone who you think has no emotional attachment to his businesses or his employees. According to you he should be getting out.
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Thatās a useful thing to do, I admire a man who can do that. Doesnāt matter that it will never make you rich, there is the pleasure of a job well done and having satisfied customers.
I donāt know where you get your business information, but you are sadly mistaken if you think it is possible to accumulate 4.5 billion by being compassionate!
I think you might be being a bit generous towards Bill Gates. Itās true that he did the right thing in the right place at the right time but his success was based on his vision of how to use the code produced by others.
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He started out as a mathematical prodigy and obsessional coder. Later he was able to employ others to write the code.
As a businessman, he gained a reputation for being predatory, but he deserves credit for spending much on his wealth on improving the lives of the disadvantaged.
I find that more commendable than creating a vehicle to provide joy rides in space for the rich.
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Iām not criticising Bill Gates but he did not create the operating system that made him famous. He made some great choices at the time and recognises that he owed a lot to others.
True but probably irrelevant.
He did what he needed to clinch the deal, heād already got his coding spurs even by that point.
Thatās what I was (saying) trying to say. In reference to my reply to Mike it is not irrelevant. I wish I had not made my tongue in cheek comment in the first place!
Gates said that he personally reviewed and often rewrote every line of code that the company produced in its first five years. As the company grew he transitioned to a manager role, then an executive.
Mike Iām talking about the beginning not the first five years. I wish I had not made a light hearted comment about your error! I do know what I am talking about.