England is a province of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.
With great respect, the sovereignty idea is always overplayed by those who prefer the UK to be out of Europe. It’s fine in theory, but you can argue the “I don’t want to be ruled by XXX” point back all the way to the village level. Parishes are “ruled” by borough councils, boroughs by counties, counties by the national parliament, and so on up the chain.
The EU is (or was in the UK’s case) just another level - no more or less democratic or controlling than the levels below.
And given the UK’s retreat from Empire and geographic and economic position on the edge of Europe, it makes far more sense to be inside the club where the UK used to be a leading force in planning and making decisions, than outside having to follow the economic rules made in Brussels in order to maintain our trade, while having no say in making them.
As for “ever closer Union”, yes that is a goal of the EU, but in practice it’s a very slow process that shows no sign of accelerating (even without the UK, which was always a brake on it), so i think is more of a straw man put up by Brexiteers than a realistic proposition in the short to medium term.
Same as Boris Johnson’s claim that “Turkey will join the EU and we will be swamped by Turkish immigrants” - again, a distant prospect.
Joining the EU never involved “sacrificing your country”, not in the 1970s nor in 2016 nor today.
Correction… a Referendum was held with the clear instructions that the result of the Referendum would be discussed by Parliament as they considered the future and what (if any) changes to make to the UK’s EU membership.
I actually kept a copy somewhere of the “guidelines”… no doubt someone can dig it out
Cameron has a lot to answer for. The referendum question might have been better framed; it shouldn’t have been a ‘simple’ majority to decide it; the Remain campaign was pathetic, etc…
I must agree as I took your comment to be ironic, also I have long been immune to jibes of whinging Poms from Australian friends. My advice is to lighten up a bit, I can’t think of a French friend who would be offended, we laugh at each other in equal measure.
I think it was the grenouille-word that was objected to.
I understood that too, but still don’t see the problem, even when described myself as Roast Beef. I remember a former time when there was a fuss about Taffy Jock and Pat, a small pinch of salt is required with a hefty dollop of sense of humour. Perhaps one of our American friends might comment as to whether they object to Yanks, about as much as I object to Limey I reckon.
As I noted above, it was intended purely to enable Cameron to tell the ERG to shut their cake-holes; nobody apart from N. Farage and friends and the Tory right wing had any interest in leaving the EU until Cameron made it an issue, first trying to appease them by flitting off to Brussels to “get better terms” etc. and then setting up the Referendum to try and get a confirmatory “Remain” vote.
As that nice Mr. Chamberlain discovered in 1938, appeasement doesn’t work.
Recent events on the world stage have highlighted what some of us have known for a long time. Britain is no longer a leading player. A decline that started after the end of WW1. Recent events have, I suspect, served to reinforce this message. Like it or not the Euro is now a major currency and the EU one of the world’s major economies. Europe is under threat from from the East but let us not forget that the likes of “The Donald” see Europe as a threat as well and will willingly damage it economically. A final thought. Was not Bojo born in the US and did not Farage belong to the team that supported Trump in his campaign to be president?
In my view.. the Referendum and the furore around it, showed just how poorly the average Brit actually understood (and still misunderstands) how the EU works.
Any country within the EU can refuse to vote/accept a European Ruling.
Britain didn’t have to leave…
Leaving was an opportunity for some people to make a lot of money
A well-argued and timely petition rejoining the EU could genuinely help restore economic stability, boost trade, and create better opportunities for the UK’s future.
Edited to add, since I’ve thought about this some more while I was being zapped:
This seems to be suggesting that the will of the people only matters so long as it’s not inconvenient or costs any money ( or, a cynic might say, goes against the wishes of the proponent of the argument) but really, it seems more like an argument designed to shut down debate and deny any democratic mandate to those who might wish to join the EU.
The trouble is, there are still far too many who don’t see this, whether due to denial of the reality or truly not being able to see. I don’t want to get all tinfoil hat but the two big events of 2016, Trump and Brexit, both took place in the period where social media was just getting to it’s peak and after decade long misinformation campaigns. For every brexiteer or MAGA who is able to see what a colossal disaster their actions were, there are still millions deep in the belief it was right, whatever their open eyes and clear mind are telling them. There are already books about Trump, one literally called “The cult of Trump’s dealing with the fact that so many of these people have literally been brainwashed by the propaganda, I wouldn’t be surprised to see the same about Brexit in future and learn that Cambridge Anayltica was just the tip of the iceberg. Let’s face it, the Epstein files show he and Steve Bannon were consorting with Farage, there’s obviously been some bad stuff gone on that’s not come to light yet.
