and then it all blows up in their face 
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I fear it is even worse than that. The BLM movement has highlighted that not so long ago we had a society that believed slaves were less than human. We are complacent if we think that attitude has gone away.
Unfortunately some of that same attitude is evident in the language that is currently being used in the world to describe “the other”, whoever they may be. Thus the language around Trump’s supporters is that they are “white trash”. The suggestions as to how people who are seen as brexiteers should be treated beggar belief sometimes.
I admit now that I’ve used such language myself in relation to Trump, but in the last few days have come to the view that it is highly dangerous. If we are ever to find accommodation with “others” it is essential we recognise our joint and equally valid humanity.
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It is difficult sometimes though - because there really are some horrible people about.
I actually have little experience of brexit supporters, other than as they appear on social media - and those are obviously going to be a-typical since most people aren’t interested in discussing any political or economic issues on social media.
I do have one close relative I know voted for brexit - and she is a very nice person - indeed she is well known for her kindness; BUT she takes no interest in current affairs and has no knowledge at all really of the issues involved in brexit (and she would readily confirm this) - she voted mainly on her feeling that things were better in the UK 50 years ago, and because (her exact words) ‘we can manage on our own’.
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This is a very frank admission of wrongness and sets a wonderful example to the rest of us, Sue. Not that others on SF are immoderate and l seem to have noticed a change in the way we discuss things over the past twelve months, there is a tendency to moderacy in language and a kinder feel…(a few @smw dots… have here been borrowed…in tribute to Stella’s big heartedness…insipring us all…
)
Even l have tempered my full-on dogmatism à bit, l think ? 
Edited to say @graham should continue to land some hilarious blows below the paunch where justified, otherwise SF won’t be SF will it? 
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And here wasI thinking it was my benign influence 
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No it is Cat laying down the law.
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I think it is carrot as well as stick, Jane. Toryroo deserves recognition as a new subscriber who met a fairly hostile reception with tolerance, good-humour and cool reasonableness in spades.
Her stature is as well entrenched as many of much longer tenure IMO.
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She has that recognition Peter. Could you please stop trying to argue with everything @Jane_Williamson posts. It is getting really boring. Thanks.
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Your stick is unnecessary. A quick check by yourself will show that I like lots of Jane’s posts and often agree with her, so to suggest I always or often disagree (“with everything”) with her is surprisingly unfair.
What’s biting you (apart from overwork, confinement etc etc?) ; and don’t say it’s me!
My last post didn’t disagree with Jane anyway, it just suggested carrot as well as stick.
Increasingly there will be direct sea trade between French and Northern European ports and Ireland, increasingly the South of that island will supply the North.
Eventually, with the nationalist population growing and stronger economic ties to the South the Northern Irish will ask what the relevance of the UK is to their way of life.
Really it is a toss up which nation will cede from the Union first, NI or Scotland but I reckon at least one will and probably both (personally I think that will ultimately be the right thing for NI and the wrong thing for Scotland but I’m not in the driving seat).
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Do I remember rightly that Ireland offered all NI residents a Irish passport if they wanted it before Brexit? Does anyone know how many took them up on that?
NI residents are eligible for Irish passports as part of the GFA IIRC & some 600,000 Northern Irish have taken up their rights in this respect since the referendum (figures from memory, might be a bit out).
Wow that is a pretty decent % of the population! I would be too - I’d be down the passport office like a shot
It seems I was close with 600,000 but only about 200,000 since the referendum
It’s over 1/3rd of the NI population though.
I’d do (almost) anything for a paddy passport. I wonder how many people elsewhere in the UK have managed to get one.
I got one, it took a year from the start of the process of registering a foreign birth and then applying for a passport.
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This is pretty much how I’ve always seen it:
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Brexit means…
Meanwhile, the UK has barely started building, much less testing the systems which need to be put in place.
I am starting to be genuinely worried about what is going to happen in January.
It was Rees-Mogg Senior’s treatise wasn’t it - disaster capitalism
I hope that I’m wrong - my worst fears about Trump do not seem to be coming true so I’m no superforecaster - but I am really starting to have a bad feeling about next year.
To an extent a “warlord economy” is still an economy - not a very nice place to not be a warlord but I’d suggest that the normally functioning US economy is not far off this state. It’s not completely deregulated but it is much more biased in favour of the corporations and oligarchs than the European economies have become.
But outside the EU we will not be able to compete with European manufacturers on quality and not with China on price. We will quickly lose the pre-eminence of London as a stock market. I think we’re fucked, frankly.
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