Bridget Bardot RIP

Seriously? Every bloody day there’s criticism of woke this and woke that, lefty this and lefty that. If you don’t see it then you need to get out of your bubble.

Free speech is far from becoming history but there needs to be recognition that freedom of speech is not the same as the right to be listened to or not to be criticised for that speech.

More and more, on both sides, it’s “free speech is good, so long as it’s my free speech “

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Honestly, @JohnH , I can’t think of any examples of the Right restricting free speech.

Whereas the Left do it all the time. Only they have fancy names for it :wink:

Let’s just look at those who have been fired, threatened and intimidated for daring to criticise Charlie Kirk. There’s none so blind as those who choose not to see.

I think the difference is that the left do it with hurty words, the right often chooses violence.

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The extreme Right - what people in other threads call fascism - does, I agree.

The Left just chooses to close down debate on certain topics where its position is illogical or untenable. Examples include Islam and its treatment of women and gay people vs. its treatment of Israel; transgender ideology; immigration.

Ironically, perhaps, the Left’s inability (and therefore unwillingness) to engage with these topics is what energises the far Right.

Of course it is, let’s blame the others

…& I would passionately defend her right to have done so, but that doesn’t mean that I & many others have to agree with her. That is the nature of free speech.

I think @JohnH has already said exactly what I would counter that comment with.

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I remember when BB turned 40 and there were pictures of her in the newspapers. She looked too stunning to be that “old(?)”. I said to my pal, “I hope I look like that when I’m 40".”

He looked my up and down, smirked and said, “So do I.”

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I think we’re at cross purposes.

The Right often complain about woke stuff, as @JohnH says.

But the Right generally doesn’t ban woke stuff, of suppress it or cancel it. There’s no need, because it’s often more effective to laugh at it.

Banning, cancelling or simply trying to drown out views you disagree with is, in general, the preserve of the Left.

Just ask Alice Sullivan.

I disagree, both in light of what’s currently happening in the US and what has happened in the past in many countries, and continues to be the case.

Quite often today around the world so-called ‘woke stuff’ isn’t legally banned, but its proponents still get thrown in jail

Examples? Ideally of Right, rather than far Right, because then we’d have to include totalitarian regimes and that would skew things against the Left!

The current presidents of Turkey and Hungary were democratically elected.

Those examples (as you say) are more about getting rid of political opponents than stopping free speech. Though serendipity still operates there, I suppose!

We could look at the current demands to strip a man of his British citizenship due to some old tweets. Are Badenoch and Philp mainstream right enough? That seems a pretty draconian attempt to suppress free speech by threat.

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I don’t think it’s the same thing, doubly so since Badenoch et al are looking pretty stupid because their lot granted him citizenship! So that’s an argument that would cut both ways, surely.

Though had PPatel done her research, it might have been a different story :wink:

Hang on, so stripping nationality of someone coz of their tweets isn’t suppression?

e.g.

“President Donald Trump reignited a decades-long feud with comedian Rosie O’Donnell Saturday, taking to his Truth Social platform to write he was considering revoking her citizenship.

Because of the fact that Rosie O’Donnell is not in the best interests of our Great Country, I am giving serious consideration to taking away her Citizenship,” Trump wrote. “She is a Threat to Humanity, and should remain in the wonderful Country of Ireland, if they want her. GOD BLESS AMERICA!”

@DrMarkH said “The current presidents of Turkey and Hungary were democratically elected.”

That’s how you get rid of political opponents - stop free speech. Take over the newspapers etc what trumpo is doing now, following Dr Mark’s examples. Happened in Russia, then Navalny et al. Then the ‘special military operation’. That’s presumably the US one against Venezuela :slight_smile: . Hong Kong - Jimmy Lai for another example?

Edit - and with a nod to the thread, I do agree with RIP Bridget, she’s dead, always to respect when someone passes, her views will live on and be debated.

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I really don’t agree with this. Death is simply the end of life and it doesn’t offer a free pass from the wrongs done in life. They need to have earned respect in life to be worthy of respect when they’re dead.

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Sorry but that’s incorrect, I didn’t say anything about getting rid of political opponents, I was referring to Turkey’s examples of curbing free speech and academic freedom. I used to visit Turkey quite often for academic conferences and saw it happen over a period of several years, initially insidiously but later, quite overtly. I was also familiar with the CEU before it was driven into exile.

If you want further detail

Meanwhile in Hungary the Central European University was driven out of the country. There is an extensive trope of right wing governments shutting down institutes of higher education that promote free thinking, which is far more prevalent and authoritarian than left wing societies within universities de-platforming people whose views they find offensive.

Right wing governments’ attacks on higher education are essentially attacks on teaching students to think for themselves.

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Julius Caesar Act III Scene II.

You seem to have confused me with an educated person.