Hi Clare - I'm so glad that you could sort out this difficult problem. You do have a smart little girl :) She must be taking after her mum ;)
Will have a look at the link too.
x
... Just had a look at the link... It is indeed a "fresh" one - No wonder that last January I couldn't find anything suitable / clear and "protocolaire". Wow, progress there. I just hope they will inform teachers and parents about it, now. They do that for lice, after all :D
From what I have heard, its not unknown for kids to get a smack or (Catharine...??) a kick from a teacher in France....smacking does not have the same negative message in France as it does in the UK. I think when looking at the way the schools work....which is far more like it was when I was in school in the 60s...where you sit and listen and learn and not the interactive teaching where kids can interupt, that you get in the UK now....then we are looking at a regime not unlike the UK 40 years ago. I dont agree particularly with smacking kids...but I do disagree hugely with the very useless way we deal with these problems in schools now. Trying to a child excluded in UK schools now almost impossible...not sure about France...but considering how hard it is for the school head teachers to take on board there is bullying...I expect its impossible...!!!!
Jane. Why not? Generations have been taught by just that method, swift and corporeal- including me.
Yes, now I can hear it across the ether 'silly old fogey, out of date, out of touch and out of tune!' Well, be that as it may, and I don't say it is the ultimate cure for bullying, but a smack or even a caning ultimately had a salutory effect in my day (Yep - Colonel Blimp to the like!).
We live in a world of Political Correctness - Human Rights, blah-blah-blah - but WHEN will we wake up to the fact that there are Human and Social responsibilities to living in Communities - not just 'Rights'.
Prove to me that the world is better now that it was before we abandoned discipline in schools and life generally, because I can't see it.
Old fart rests his case.
Clare, great that you're on the way to resolving things. The fact that your daughter is happier says it all. Way to go!
@Christine - an even later reply. Doesn't surprise me a bit. France has been very slow to wake up to bullying, decades after the UK, and there's a long way to go. Teachers need training and support.
Go for you Clare! Do make sure you follow up......they have a way of being busy and forgetting....sigh.
Glad she is feeling better. Hopefully they now know she is not the one to pick on :-)
So pleased that things are working for you and your daughter Clare...its a horrible experience and I can remember my daughter going through this very well...despite it happening 20 years ago!
Hi Christine, thank you for your response. I realise from the education sites that it is really something that is virtually unheard of here until I came across this http://eduscol.education.fr/cid55921/le-harcelement-scolaire.html In this document there are full instructions of how this behaviour should be dealt with. I was so lucky to find it because I was able to formally complain in writing and ask for the complaint to go on record and I indicated in this letter that I was attaching a document from eduscol which was approved by the ministry of education and demanded that she took note. I also copied it in to the accadamie, so she cannot deny having it. I am pleased to say that my little girl was smart enough to get some evidence of the taunting that was done this week in writing by the little brat (who stupidly left it behind) that has been aggravating her. After my letter the culprits were hauled in and were prepared to lie until the evidence was produced. I have asked for a formal written response requesting that the parents be informed and I am now waiting for so sort of response. I hasten to add that my little girl came home really happy for the first time in ages. Long may it continue as these kids realise that she is far smarter then they are. Thank you again to all that responded to this thread. Had I not had this support I probably wouldn't have had the result that I have had so far this week.
Hi Clare -
A bit of a late reply. I read all of the posts here. As an ex-teacher in France, I can tell you that I received NO training whatsoever between 2008 - 2010 about bullying - although I do know that it is taken seriously in the UK. Yes, teachers are responsible for what happens in class BUT they also need the FULL support of their superiors if they want to act. If that support doesn't exist in anyway - which is sadly the case most of the time, it is then a hard situation to be in for a teacher who might in turn be bullied by their own bosses ( guess what !? ) while they'd be praised in the UK ( guess what !?)
All French school "should" have a (strict) policy to fight bullying but most don't. In my experience, I have not encountered a single one which had one.
Once my daughter reported bad bullying concerning another girl in her class (3ème, last year of collège). Needless to say, none of the other kids thought there was something wrong whereas my own daughter was frankly outraged and so she bravely talked to me about it.
I went to see the head with her, upon appointment. He formally said he wouldn't inform the girl's parents (nor the bully's, actually). I told him I disagreed and that if it was my own daughter, I would want to know about it. Instead, because of the seriousness of it and my daughter being threatened in turn - in writing ! - by the same bully, I went to report everything to the local gendarmerie as a "main courante" report, to the surprise of the gendarmes there who wanted me to lessen the situation, somehow ( no training there either, it seems...), eventhough they have no right to do so. The matter ended there but the bullying kid was seen by the Head who him put straight about it all and also reminded him that it is indeed punishable by law.
Finally, as discussed before, the bulllies usually have problems of their own and bullying is a way to feel "good" + gives them a false sense of being stronger and on top of everything in their own lives.
you misunderstand - I didn't mean a literal smack, but a hard, negative riposte, making it very clear that this behaviour is totally unacceptable, and using language which may be shocking. In my experience this only needs to be done once. The person will then never be a friend, but the behaviour will stop.
My daughter had problems with just such a girl and this girl was and had been invited to everyone's birthday parties, including my daughter's and it did not solve the problem at all. All the parents complained about this girl and inviting her to one's house seemed to make her feel she was getting away with it. If you invite the child for tea and tell her your daughter needs to get to know her classmates better, the bully will see through this and despise you and probably make sarcastic remarks to your child about her parents.
Jane Griffiths I personally, don’t agree with your approach. A smack will make think just worst. I very much like Lucia's approach. My husband is British and we moved 3 years ago to France. My daughter was bullied by another girl. We spoke to the teacher and then to the parents and things went only worst until one day, one of the mums, suggested that I invited this girl to my daughter’s birthday and from this day things went just perfectly. Try to speak to the parents and to explain that you are worried about the relations between the 2 girls. The teacher reaction is just disgusting but I am not surprised.
That's why a letter addressed to the parents, copied to the teacher and the Inspection académique is the only way. You have seen the teacher/head, and discussed it and nothing has been done. You must copy in the inspection and show that you have done so in the letter, ie list the ccs at the top. If they think it has gone to the Inspection as well, they will react. The parents may not realise that the child is a bully and may not believe it, preferring to believe their own child, but if the inspection is involved there should be a reaction and some action.
Bullying is a serious issue in French schools just as much as anywhere else. There is a government programme to deal with it using two popular figures in children's literature, Max and Lili.
I blogged about it here http://www.sarahhague.com/2012/03/stop-bullying.html
The gov has produced some videos showing types of bullying. Kids can be vile and foul to each other, but the French government is not standing by and letting them bully others with impunity. Bullying can be reported either to a teacher, the police or by phoning these numbers:
STOP HARCÈLEMENT : 0808 80 70 10
NET ECOUTE : 0800 200 000 for cyber-bullying
If the teacher is no help, call one of the other numbers. You could also ask her if she intends giving out the carte d’identité scolaire « Halte à la violence ! Réagis ! ».
Hi Carol, yes I am afraid you are absolutely correct. Bullies ALWAYS choose those they CAN bully - and this is applicable to all ages and situations. Sooner (rather than later) the only genuine option is to learn to stand up for oneself - and even getting clobbered in the process as I was as a kid, was better than just 'taking it'. After a few physical altercations in which I invariably lost, I also became a 'non-easy' target as I just managed enough dissuasion points in of my own - even when I was a little fella with no home support at all available.
Yes all macho stuff I hear, and how does that apply to little girls? Well match the verbal bullying with some of her own! I am sure as an intelligent little girl she can contrive some suitably embarassing put-downs to the other thicko can't she? Frightened it might get physical? Well that would be a certain way to get the attention of the teachers wouldn't it? Then she wouldn't be thought of as a wimp and crying to her Mum.
Sorry if this sounds harsh to some, but as you point out there are Bullies everywhere, and the ONLY answer I have found in my lifetime is to stand up to them even if you lose the fight you usually win the war.
I also have the maxim that if there's going to be a lousy neighbour - then it will be me and not someone else. That's why I am such a lovable person?
Angela, you have confirmed my point about childhood bullies continuing into adulthood. Few believe the degree of bullying in the workplace. Today on radio 4 the story of an English hospital and the bullying that took place of younger staff members bullied into changing legal data. My sister in law was bullied out of her job due to her deleloping a condition akin to motor neurone disease. Not only was she trying to cope with a depressing diagnosis and reduced mobility as a woman of 40, she had nasty comments from a couple of members of staff saying now she was 'disabled she wasnt mentally capable of doing her job'. Her mental abilities are not affected by her condition. Its outrageous to have this happening in any workplace. My sister in law was very strong and took the company to a tribunal. Her boss actually said he was shocked that she had a barrister and didnt think it fair of her to do that....when the tribunal found against the company he actually suggested to her it was a misunderstanding and she should forget all about it (the bullying and no doubt the £15,000 the company was ordered to pay) and return to work!!!!! my advice for what its worth, never accept bullying, bullies are cowards essentially and if you stand up to them, they back down....if its a child being bullied then I think the way Angela and Mike have dealt with it is the best way to go.
BELIEVE YOUR DAUGHTER!
My kids were born in France (even though I'm Australian) but there is always at least one who is a bully for some reason. I didn't believe my own daughter - or wondered if she wasn't exaggerating/maybe making things worse) when she told me about being harassed at school around age 9 too.
It just so happened though that I was witness to it once when I had to come in for one of my other children - there were three of them ganging up on her and stopping other kids from playing with her. So I took matters into my own hands. One of the girls was the daughter of the local police officer as well and I wasn't particularly close to her mother.
I stalked across the playground and asked them if they knew what harassment was. I then proceeded to tell them in no uncertain terms, in a very menacing voice, that harassment was punishable by law and that I would be quite happy to call their parents in from their jobs right away and march them into the head's office to discuss it so they could understand better if necessary…
I then explained that they could play with whoever they liked, but they had no right to stop others playing with my daughter…
They went white with fear and my little 9 year old had no problems with them from that day forward. I'm afraid you may just have to take matters into your own hands. These kids do NOT tell their parents that they are bullying and most parents are loathe to enter into their kids' daily 'routines' at school… As long as you don't touch the kids physically - but remain quite strong and menacing yourself, you can be sure they won't go running to Mummy. My daughter didn't want me to go in and fight her battles for her but she was becoming distraught at the thought of going to school and when I saw it actually happening in front of my own eyes I saw red. Bullying is WRONG behavior. And that's all there is to it. You are within your rights to go in and explain that in no uncertain terms!
And just for the record:
a) Two of the three girls (not the ring leader who changed schools not long afterwards) have since grown into really lovely teenagers (including the daughter of the police officer!!) and are now - five years down the track - firm friends with my daughter. It's a delight to have them over here. They do nothing but giggle, help out and support each other! It can just be a passing phase - if you don't let it get out of hand!
b) My husband, who is French, thought I must have done something to 'deserve' the harassment I received at work from a boss. Seems like a French thing to think that! Don't dare believe it. Bullies are bullies and you can definitely have an effect yourself by being a strong and unbending parent in front of these kids…
Good luck
Couldnt agree more Mike. The problem is with the bully and not the bullied. I am working in a college at the moment as the college nurse. The students are aged from 16 upwards. Bullying is a big problem. The college is agricultural and there are groups, those studying Gamekeeping, Equine Studies, Fisheries etc. and each set is very different. Some of the kids have been brought up by very hard line country folk and the students can be anti gay, racist, sexist etc. I would say that 30% of the visits to my surgery are kids coming in with minor problems whose real problem is dealing with bullies. If these bullies had been sorted out as children then we wouldnt have the number of bullies in their late teens who will go on to spend their lives as unpleasant, overbearing people, determined to get their own way and treating others badly.
Jesus woman grow a pair …get up to the school and see the head,tell her you are not satisfied,you want a meet with the parents and the child don’t let this go on as you will make your poor daughter Ill verbal bullying is as bad as physical …if you saw someone hurting your daughter you would jump in to defend her …just because there are no marks doesn’t mean there won’t be scars…believe me I speak from experience…
It sounds good but I think having to deal with this on a daily basis is not easy. However much you build her self confidence she still has to face them every day and spend the day with no-one to talk to. It is one of the bully's tactics to be nice to someone and include them and then turn everyone against them the next day. If the other children are in the thrall of the bully, no amount of self confidence will help and a self confident child quickly turns into a very shy and withdrawn teenager.
I agree 100% with your response, Anna! Our 9 yr old daughter was dealing with little "queen bees" like that back in maternelle! It comes and goes, but I'm pretty sure it happens in EVERY school - kids can be vicious. But they can also grow out of it...so leaving an otherwise good school or risking alienating your child from her community are probably overkill. I'm not saying that this kind of mean behaviour is OK, and I know first-hand how heart-breaking it can be to see your child go through this, but I agree with Anna that the best long-term solution is to support your child, help her understand that it's the bully who has a problem, not her (no matter how many kids the bully succeeds in turning against her), and maybe help her come up with some strategies or come-backs that she can use when the bully strikes. When our daughter was going through this again last year, it seemed to help her a lot just to have us listen. I didn't ask too many questions, just let her explain how she felt when X happened, and she arrived at her own conclusion that: not all the girls agreed with the bully, in fact some of them were tired of her, too, as she would switch targets regularly. So she decided to stop siding with the bully once she picked another target (natural human reaction, unfortunately) and only play with the "nice" girls who also refused to take part in the mistreatment of others.
Best of luck to you and your daughter! It is a very hard issue.