Carte De Sejour, online, in october, from Gouv.fr by

General Discussion
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How OK is it?!
“SUFFICIENT RESOURCES”
From RIFT. (remain in France together).
What are ‘sufficient’ resources?

The decree states that the sufficiency of resources is looked at taking account individual circumstances but that in no case must this be more than the level of RSA - currently 559,74€ per month for someone living alone, and 839,62€ per month for a couple. There are other figures for families with children - see the government website here for details.

It also states that if your resources aren’t deemed to be sufficient, a favourable decision may nevertheless be taken if you own your own home or otherwise live rent-free.

If you’re in receipt of AAH (l’allocation aux adultes handicapés) the sufficient resources criterion will not apply.

Is this good or bad?

It’s a mixture, and there are some clarifications needed before we can properly answer that question!

For those over 65, on the whole it’s good, as it reduces the level of ‘sufficient resources’ from its current (and higher) level of ASPA down to the lower RSA level.

For those who are working or self-employed, it means that you’ll have to justify a certain level of resources for the first time - previously you’d have been required only to show that your work was ‘genuine and effective’.

If you receive AAH, it’s also good news, as it means that you won’t have to justify sufficient resources at all.

There is, though, one thing that we need clarity on. Taken literally, the wording of the relevant article of the decree (Article 11) implies that you must ‘have’ sufficient resources, not that you have to ‘have had’ them for 5 years as you would for an EU carte de séjour permanent or for a regular carte de résident longue durée. We want to get more clarity on this and an understanding of what’s intended, so we’ll be taking this up as soon as possible with the Ministry of the Interior. Until then, please don’t read too much into this, and continue to put your dossiers together to cover a 5 year period. We’ll update you as soon as we can."

(Over 65 is 800 e. Plus)

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I have lost what may be an important bit of info.
Was it Stella who wrote about the difference between a carte and titre…de sejour?

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Right, thank you for that link Jeanette.

I have now enquired using J’s information (eg as a retired person with a German passport who has been here over five years etc) and asked about the resources issue.

When I get the answer, I will post it and I suggest that the EC europa site is probably sufficiently up to speed (Rift has useful info but it is not the appropriate law making body) to clarify this for once and for all.

If it is as Jeanette says, then I will humbly apologise. If not I will be closing this thread and suppressing any future ones on the same subject as my concern is that this could be causing a lot of unnecessary worry to a lot of people. Thanks.

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64

Cat, I am not a “retired person”. In France.
As I said, I am registered with impots, as a micro entrepreneur.

I have the Old Age Pension, from UK. In UK extra income has no effect on pension rights.

To be a ‘retired person’ in France, (according to a French retired artist) an artist is not permitted to sell work.

Personal details are taken into account.

65

Yes I know that and included that info along with the fact that you are over 65.

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66

:blush:. OK! Interesting experiment!

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Gosh.Fabulous if it is all finalised and is really OK.
However, if not, please don’t humbly apologise! Thinking the whole thing through in detail is very helpful, whatever the outcome.

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@cat and @Dan_Wood anyone interested. (And…surely best to be forewarned, even for the most anxious cash strapped OAPs…?)

I found my last response from that Euro. Legal advice org. Cat is contacting. As follows…

“There is indeed a risk that you get refused a CDS if the French authorities consider that your resources are not sufficient and that you could become a burden to the French social assistance system in the sense of Article 7 of Directive 2004/38.
The French authorities decide on a case-by-case scenario, so you must be ready to rebut any argument that they may put forth - if ever – to deny your right to stay in France. In our view, you should say that you own your house (so you have no rent to bear), that you live frugally and healthily, and have never accepted any support from state funds at present.
Besides, since you have been living in France since 1995, have you ever considered applying for French citizenship? This could solve any potential problem.
In any case, if, in the worst case scenario the French authorities consider that you cannot live in France – which is far from obvious that they will ever consider it – you will be entitled to challenge it. For this purpose, we recommend that you hire a lawyer. If you do accept their decision, though, you will be allowed to live in France up to 3 months (legal basis : Article 6 of EU directive 2004/38 on the right of EU citizens to live in another Member State). In our view, this means only three months at a time and not 6 months in one year.
Regarding your house : no, you will not be obliged to sell you house especially because there is nothing that proves that the French authorities would accept that the income of the sale constitutes sufficient revenue to prove your right to stay in France. Have you considered to rent your house while being in Japan or traveling abroad? This could provide you an extra-revenue which would facilitate your case for getting the Carte de séjour.”
( @cat if you would like me to forward the whole email message, and any others, I’ve written/received, to you, in case anyone else asks about this stuff, I will be glad to do so…).

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I think in fact that given age and lifestyle your most reassuring extra option would be applying for French citizenship: there is no condition of resources once you have lived here en règle for at least 5 years and you don’t have to do a language test as you are over 60 (I am sure you would pass it with no trouble, but it is something you might worry about).

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Yes, Vero, I think French citizenship could be a solution, I considered it carefully, but having already paid quite a lot, for different kinds of research, certificates etc over the years, for my German citizenship to be legalised, I decided, best stick with that for now, Germany doesn’t permit more than two nationalities, I believe. UK accepts multiple nationalities.

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You don’t have to revoke German nationality if you take nationality of another EU country.

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You mean, its OK to have three nationalities? German, UK and French, with all three countries?..
And France is OK with it, too?
I could have checked all of it in better detail,
I’ve always been quite sure about Germany not accepting two extras…:fearful:
If that’s so, I can be French, I will start some more filling in forms right away!

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All very interesting but the real question is why are you applying for / do you need a CDS with a German passport .

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Well…that legal dept. had all my details.
They know I have dual nationality. The first part of my request to them as follows…in this copy of their response…

“Your original enquiry was:
You have answered a number of questions for me. Thank you so much. Another question. I am now recognised as German nationality, (my grandparents were german, and my parents, by inherited nationality, but british also). …”

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Jeanette as a fellow dual national I can tell you that whichever nationality fits in best is the one taken into account, you aren’t considered half and half, if there’s a problem with one you use the other, nobody cares about both if them simultaneously, you don’t have eg to have a visa in each passport.
So for staying in France your UK nationality is ignored, unless you personally make a song and dance about it, only the German one is relevant.

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It’s a shame this thread has got hijacked by what appears to be (sorry to be blunt) an attention-seeking individual, because the original topic would have been interesting and reassuring to the people it is designed to help.

I don’t understand Jeanette’s thinking. On the face of it, her reason for applying for a CdS (that she doesn’t need), appears to be, because she thinks she may not meet the criteria. It’s not clear why she wouldn’t meet them but she seems determined to ignore the criteria she does meet and look for complications that would put her in a grey area.

Sorry to be grouchy but I opened this thread to see if someone had more info about the planned online system, and that’s what I ended up wading through.

Maybe the mods could split it off into one thread with the original title and relevant posts in it, and another thread called “Jeanette”.

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@anon27586881 @JohnBoy
…there is another topic, I think similar, that may be yours,
Perhaps there is confusion for some posters, …but this one is “my” topic!
:smiley:
Don’t worry about it. !
Your point is a good one to discuss, anyway.
I was at that moment, thinking about the large? I don’t know how many…
Elderly people there may be, in France, who may find themselves in the same position.
I’m very fortunate, and a lot more than most, in having had experience of dealing with refusal/rejection and I manage the difficulties well enough. Others may not do so. It can be very distressing, particular for people who are old and alone.

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Yes, this is what fascinates me - As a German citizen CdS is not obligatory for Jeanette so why apply and who asked her to get one or told her she needed one. As an Micro Entrepreneur it is not a requirement nor is it to obtain a Carte Vitals or a Mutuelle Sante. And why now? If you have not had one for 15 years what suddenly prompted the sudden urge. The mystery continues​:blush::blush::blush:

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Micro entrepreneur, Dan, don’t suppose that matters…but hopefully , with Cat’s investigation, all will be known eventually.

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Fair enough, yes I see thar you started it. My bad, I was misled by the title into thunking it was a thread about the online procedure itself.

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