CIPAV - Do I have to pay this demand for money?

I've been an Auto-Entrpreneur for a couple of years now and only ever payed my normal dues following my normal online declaration. I've just received a letter from CIPAV saying that I'm now affiliated to them with a bill for €670 - do I have to pay into a retirement scheme or is it optional? Is this just another company trying to get money out of me that I don't legally have to pay (ie trade directories etc). I was under the impression when I became an Auto-Entrpreneur that I just payed the sum which is calculated on my online declaration with no extra demands for payment.

It is that 'Très sincèrement' bit that gets me. As if they care. Yes, you're fine now. Forget it until the next one.

Did the three crosses, signed, scanned, PDF sent via email. No response. Sent further email asking did he get my email and just got this reply, so think I'm ok for now! :-)

Bonjour Madame WALSHE,

J’ai bien reçu votre courriel et je vous en remercie.

Nous avons bien noté que vous n’aviez pas de salarié.

Notre centre de gestion va vous adresser un certificat d’adhésion (RIEN AVERSER et à conserver) correspondant à votre situation.

Très sincèrement.


Conseiller retraite et création d'enteprise



As long as I can keep the turnover within the guidelines I will definitely stay an AE. Just keeping things more 'simple' will be priceless. I don't think I will save much in taxes as I have another full time job and I read somewhere that they take that into consideration. But simply the benefit of not having all the costs of creating companies, accounting fees, etc. will bring benefit.

Donna, a word of advice, if you possibly can, stick to being an auto entrepreneur, get your OH set up as an auto entrepreneur too rather than setting up a business which will cost you a fortune regardless of whether you take any money or not. Some have started companies and even though they've had small turnover, they've ended up being out of pocket because the cotisations are so high and NOT linked to actual earnings/turnover (as is the case of the AE scheme).

Yes, we both did our Réunica forms a few minutes ago. Every other box to show what is not applicable, no employees and so on, so three crosses and a signature and you're done.

Yes, RAM deal with the health and insurance part, CIPAV or RSI (MAS or CPAM for salariés) deal with the cotidations via URSSAF ie you pay URSSAF who then pay CIPAV who then pay RAM!

you need to choose one in the event you employ people - not going to happen but it has to be done, won't cost you anything either ;-)

Yes, what you do depends on the choice you have, Valerie is in the same line as me and we're both with Réunica. Just choose one, fill the form in and wend it back - I didn't even get a phone call, never heard anything!

Apparently, I have to choose between AGIRC and ARRCO. Have tried to make sense of the entire contents but its proving too much for my rusty French. FIVE flipping pages!

Andrew said it with the first response. My OH and I get heaps of these things and some telling us we are obliged to respond, as if that makes us feel obliged to enclose a cheque. One or the other of us usually calls them and then takes a slightly different route to their letter to find out what the case really is. Probably 90% of them are just after the money for a totally useless membership of something or other. Registre des Creations do not understand the word 'Non' because they write or call at least once a year, the call following discussion with them three years ago nearly where they must have saved the number. Ask somebody who knows if you do not want to enquire, but most of this stuff is useful for lighting winter fires.

I received a choice of 2 for pensions as well, Sheila. I opted for Reunica and filled it out saying I was independent etc. A lady (who luckily spoke a little English) telephoned to confirm I was a work-at-home-no-employees type of woman and said "Fine, okay". I've heard nothing since so assume they were happy with that.

Thanks, yet again Andrew! I think I'll just pick my way through the form and say there will be no employees, but reading through it (still a bit slow) I must complete it and send back anyway. Wish I was in the position of having employees, but I thought you couldn't have employees in AE?

No apologies necessary. Logically you are correct. However, everything costs SO much. I don't want to pay to have a company created without my husband and then pay again. Since we are in such a small village and I plan to start by only being open 3-4 days a week, we will not exceed the turnover rules in the first year or two.

Thanks for your reply Andrew - I chose RAM when I first started as an Auto-Entrpreneur and things have gone OK with them, so far. At the beginning of 2012 I changed my AE category (still within Profession Liberale) and CIPAV seemed to have picked up on this change to my AE status.

I had the same too, from Vauban Humanis and Malakoff Médéric, both saying I had to choose one of them and that they are approved by l'ARRCO and l'AGIRC and I am not sure if it is necessary.

I've just googled it and yes there are loads of AEs who have paid (French ones, it's not a scam aimed at expat AEs!) and are up in arms.

yes you have to choose a supplementary pension for your employees should you ever employ any, mine's Réunica but of no importance what so ever, unless ofcourse you're going to start employing people...!

I had it too. If you read the small print carefully you will probably find it is an obscure directory of businesses, or you could google it and find other people have had the same thing and it is an advert cunningly laid out to look like an official bill.

Don't ;-)