Declaring Income - what is Income? - 2019

I know we pull the subject apart every year… but…

Last weekend, I chatted with an interesting chap … anyway, the topics roamed from cars to this and that and… finally… onto Money.

He asked about Tax d’Hab and said that he was below the threshold… fair enough. Seems he lives off of savings and the profit from selling his house in UK…
… Then he went on to talk about his DWP which gets paid into his UK bank account…

Yep, you’ve probably guessed… as the money does not come to France… he reckons it is not Income… :zipper_mouth_face:

At this point I was torn between bursting into hysterical laughter and strangling him… but… he is a nice guy… he is intelligent…

What is it with some folk. They seem to have a blind spot. He argued, no, no, the money never comes here to France. (It is only used to buy in UK whatever he wants shipped out here.) … :roll_eyes::roll_eyes:

I advised him to speak with his local Tax Office and come clean…quite possibly, he will still be within limits etc… :thinking:

Anyway, he seemed pleased to hear about the Law which allows for a genuine mistake/misunderstanding… with no penalties.

If/when we meet again… I shall not ask him the big question, but I will be itching for an update… :hugs:


Made me giggle Stella - not trying to poke the bear are you ?:wink:

I’ve had many similar conversations. It’s so weird though - if you’re a UK resident you have to declare your worldwide income in the UK - so why do some people think it would be any different in France as a French resident? Bonkers

Anyway - I guess they’re all going to be flushed out pretty soon :joy::joy:

Not poking… this truly happened last weekend. Chap has been here some years now… how can he have missed what we all keep putting up … in mile-high letters.

Income Declaration in France… means Declaring every last nut and bolt, shekel, dinar… etc etc … that goes into a person’s pocket/bank account whatever, anywhere in the world. :roll_eyes:

Despite Tax being taken at Source… Everyone will have to make a Declaration this year… so I advise folk to get the figures together for Income 2018… don’t wait until the last moment…

1 Like

What’s the betting he hasn’t declared his UK bank accounts either :roll_eyes:

but he could still get fined if found out…
As an aside, one British expat told me once that as he has a Sky subscription, he doesn’t need to get a french TV licence :roll_eyes:

1 Like

Its also not too dissimilar to people with Govt pensions who believe that, as they can only be taxed in the UK, they don’t have to declare them here because there is a rule about double taxation… oh dear, oh dear oh dear :roll_eyes:


I have suggested he owns up… that way he should not be fined… although they may well ask for Tax d’Hab if his income now warrants it…

Across the weekend, there were some other worms coming out of the woodwork… people asking for my help… nothing to do with Classics…

I even had a French Journalist asking me for help, on behalf of his Brit girlfriend… about the language exam…:thinking::roll_eyes:

1 Like

NOOOOOOOOOO! That gets on of these…


1 Like

These old chestnuts keep coming out… again and again… I wouldn’t have thought folk could be so daft… how wrong that was… :stuck_out_tongue_closed_eyes:

You would think with all our forum members… no-one should be in any doubt about what they “should” be doing… arrrrgh

Perhaps our forum members aren’t shouting it from the tree-tops :roll_eyes:

Stella - I think it’s simply the case that when some people move countries they just don’t consider that local rules apply to them.

(I bet most of them call themselves ‘expats’… :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:)

1 Like

I was always told that an ex was a hasbeen and a pat was something left behind by a cow :wink:


Genuine question - I thought the TV licence was paid as a part of the Taxe d’Hab?

Perfectly happy to be told otherwise - and I will get it sorted when I next get back to Carmaux!

Correct Carl - it’s an ‘opt-out’ system.

1 Like

Thank you Simon - mind is now at rest :woozy_face:

Just wondering… :sunglasses: how many UK tax residents rent out property in France and don’t declare the income in France? (or the UK for that matter…) :zipper_mouth_face:. I happen to know (:sunglasses:) the fisc are having a good old drains up this year - with the active help of some online booking platforms… interesting :thinking:

But I do wonder how much will change. I did think that a positive of Brexit could be that it would stop people playing the system as I object to people taking what they want from living here whilst avoiding paying into the system in any way.

But really how will this change? Sure post Brexit we should all get our CdS or equivalent, and that will mean people have to make tax declarations etc. But if people just get visitor visas are the authorities really going to pick up when a visa has been overstayed? Or if they don’t get a visa, and just never leave the Shengan area will anyone really notice?

I can’t see that chasing down illegal resident british people is going to be a high priority? Unless perhaps they have undeclared rental income when it might be more of interest.

1 Like

I’d guess visa overstays will be caught on the way out Jane and could result in an entry ban for a period.

1 Like

Well Jane - that really depends on whether or not they can provide evidence of tax residency - i.e. French Tax Returns…if not then no CdS! :no_entry:

“You would think with all our forum members… no-one should be in any doubt about what they “should” be doing… arrrrgh”

Hi Stella l was surprised to read that you believe views, advice, information etc on this forum cascades down to the majority of the 150,000 Brits living in France - I dont know exactly how many SF members there are but l assume that over 100,000 British immigrants are not and that they either get their facts from elsewhere or, as you know, don’t give a ‘toss’ about the rules and don’t want to know.

I don’t think taxation at source will change the annual declaration requirement. The deductions are only approximations of one’s liability and the final balancing will be based on the annual declaration. The 2018 declaration in May will be used to issue a tax credit which will be equal to one’s 2018 liability excluding any one off items (to prevent dumping income into the “tax free” year").

The interesting thing (which I’m still trying to get my head around) is if part of one’s foreign income is taxed abroad and in France. Normally one can offset the French tax against the foreign tax (though maybe not totally). But since there will be no tax paid in France for 2018 the foreign tax will not be reduced, so one misses out, to a degree, on the benefit of a “tax free year” point of view but one is still paying 2019 at source. A real double taxation problem.

Is it right that a foreign Government benefits from a French Impots action and negatively impacts a French tax resident?

Hi John… I was making the same point that you make … taxation at source does NOT remove the need to make the Annual Declaration. (though some folk think otherwise :roll_eyes: ) the French Gov site is clear.

And you’ve got me confused now John…
If there is a Tax Treaty…Tax paid abroad is set against what France would charge… if Tax paid abroad is more than France would have charged… tough…
If Tax paid abroad was too little… the difference would be charged by France.

In all cases Social Charges would be added if appropriate…

So we’re not missing out with the “free 2018 income” thingy… as far as I can see. :thinking:

After the 2019 Declaration has been made… France will check the figures in the usual way…

Then charge/amend or refund or NIL each Declarant, depending on how much has already been deducted at source in France.