Difficulties in applying for a new electrical connection

Property & Home
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Hi,

I’m trying to fill in a form on the Enedis website to arrange a new electrical connection for a house I’m about to start building.

I opted for a supply of 12kVA, and a solar production of 2kVA. I’m stumped at the mandatory fields for details regarding the solar inverter - the site is currently a field, and I won’t be deciding on which inverter to use for a couple of years I expect.

To get round this, I’m thinking I might have to change my application to supply only, and then adding the solar production once the house is built. Would there be an extra cost in dealing with the electricity like this in two stages? Can I add the solar power later at a reasonable cost?

Thanks,

John Pedersen

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We first had a provisional connection, 3kw I think, to enable work to be done on the house. Then we made a full application some time later. It was years ago, but it is probably similar these days.

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I had no electrical connection at all when I bought the house in June. Everything had been installed but could not be finished and it was upto us to deal with Enedis to supply once they had the Consuel paperwork. I believe the house at the front supplied power to enable mine to be built, I have no idea but when it came to getting the supply switched on, the waiting list was months. Eventually I plead my case that it was the hottest month, I had no refrigeration, no hot water (had no water either as was the same scenario and waiting list of months) and of course my age and situation and they sent two contractors to connect to the street reseau but those contractors refused to connect to the fuseboard so we did it ourselves and the electrician came the following week and checked it over. What I am saying is you need to get your paperwork for theutilities in early as they have long waiting times with all the new buildings going up currently and upgrading too of current properties. The house builder forgot to send in the dossier to Veolia so that was a nightmare and he also refused to get anything connected for us at all and that is another story of disatissfaction with that particular builder which my neighbour suffered with too. For something that is currently an idea, best to get one of their technicians to the site and let him see what will be involved. Solar power can be added at any time later on too but shop around for that as some providers are twice the price of others.

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Don’t worry about your solar plans for now. They can be added once everything else is done & connected.

You may find this article that I wrote a while ago to be useful…

A recent conversation on another forum prompts me to publish the following information about how to get power on at a renovation in France:

1. The property has had an electricity supply in the past, & there is a meter present - you open a new permanent supply contract with an energy provider e.g. EDF, Engie, etc. You need to know the PDL (Point de Livraison) number, which should be traceable via the previous owner’s bills. In this instance the state of the old installation is of no consequence to getting a supply switched on, though it is most definitely of concern to the user!

2. The property has had power in the past but not from a supply that is currently on the premises (i.e. the property has been split off from a larger one). This means that the existing installation will have to pass an inspection by CONSUEL before a new permanent supply can be connected.

3. The premises has never had an electrical installation - the property requires a new installation that then has to pass a CONSUEL check, as 2 above. This can equally apply to a property which has had the meter & cut out removed - it ceases to exist as a “branchement” at that point.

In both cases 2 & 3 you need to approach ENEDIS to get a price to create a new permanent electrical supply (“branchement définitif”) for the property. Whatever your immediate approach to get power is I strongly advise that you get this sorted sooner rather than later as you will then know what you are dealing with. Sometimes there are local grid issues which means that what seems like an easy connection is anything but (with a subsequent increase in cost…). Another bonus of doing this early is that if it involves any ground works (digging a trench…) you could use that excavation to get some 25mm² (or larger) bare copper wire in the ground to create your earth connection (domestic supplies in France do not have an earth terminal provided by the grid).

If case 2 or 3 applies you will have to get some temporary power connected in order to carry out renovation works to the property. Until you have a credible electrical installation to be inspected a new permanent supply cannot be switched on.

If you only need occasional power (odd power tools, site kettle) then a generator might be a cost effective option. However, if you need a more constant supply to keep a fridge cold, need lots of temporary lighting, &/or need to constantly charge cordless tools, then getting a temporary building site (“chantier”) supply is more civilised. If your need for it is over 28 days (!) you need to apply to an energy supplier to organise that. EDF are the best bet in this instance as they still have a big tie up with ENEDIS as they were once one company. This is best organised via ‘phone - use +33 9 69 32 15 15. If you have information about the nearest neighbour (name, address, PDL if you can get it) that is helpful for them to locate your premises.

Unless you want to rent a temporary meter box from EDF (which will get pricey over time) I recommend you buy a suitable one from one of the many online suppliers. I recommend Toulouselec but there are others to be found. You can choose exactly the spec you need - mono or tri, earth stake or not, ground or overhead connection, wall, pole or stand mounted etc. There are many available second hand as it’s standard practice to sell them once you have your permanent power.

A temporary supply box will be sited as close as possible to the point of connection to the grid. This could be some distance away but if you’ve had your “branchement définitif” installed (as advised above) EDF will use that as their point of connection. If you are having a Type 2 mains installation (see below) that connection point will be at the edge of your property; rather than stringing temporary cables across the ground it’s always best to use the private underground mains cable (that you will have to install anyway) to carry the supply to the house, where it can be connected to a temporary distribution board & ultimately to the full system as it appears.*

To be clear about temporary supplies….they are for up to a year - I always advise that you ask for that from day one. It is possible to extend them, but do so in good time - never let them cut you off as you will have to apply again, & will get charged the connection fee again. Also a “chantier” supply is intended for exactly that, a building site supply. If your supplier gets wind that such a supply is being used for any other purpose (such as living in the property) they are at liberty to disconnect it (& they do). Yes, plenty of people do live in their ongoing renovations, but don’t make it obvious if you do.

*A footnote about supply types

ENEDIS (the entreprise that manages the domestic grid in France) install their meter & main breaker (“disjoncteur de branchement”) in one of two places.

A Type 1 installation means that you can have the meter & main disjoncteur inside the property. This is only allowed if the cable length from the box that houses ENEDIS’s main fuses (the “coffret de connexion”) to the meter inside is 30 metres or less. The client is allowed to dig the connecting trench & provide the 75mm minimum diameter red flexible conduit (“gaine”) that they require, but ENEDIS use their own cable inside it.

A Type 2 installation is obligatory when the cable length mentioned above is over 30 metres (or you can opt for it even if Type 1 is possible). For Type 2 ENEDIS will place their meter & disjoncteur in a box next to their “coffret de connexion” on the property boundary. From that point on everything is the client’s responsibility - trench, gaine & cable. If the distance from the meter to the main distribution board in the property is long you can be faced with quite a high cost for the larger size of cable that will be required to keep volt drop within the 2% demanded by regulations.

https://connect-racco.enedis.fr/…/modeE…/demarchesEtape3

Don’t worry about your solar plans for now. They can be added once everything else is done & connected.

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Well, that is great! Badger, thanks very much!

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Yep Badger and his information are great!

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Mr Badger,

I’m afraid I’m still not clear about the best way to proceed with this, so a couple more questions, if you don’t mind.

The new house is to be built 25m north of the road. 30m north of the house is an electricity pole which supports the electric cable going from one end of the hamlet to the other.

I intend to do all the work as far as possible myself (it’s a small house, 50m2). Which means in 2023, I’ll be happy to have the drainage done, access road built, a bit of landscaping and tree planting, water supply connected (that’s in hand at least) the foundations in place and a small stockage built. The rest of the house can be built in 2024.

I’d like an electricity supply to power the cement mixer which I could use a generator for, but I’d also like a washing machine and electric heated shower temporarily installed in the stockage. (Currently while in France, I live in a tiny off-grid cabin a 20 minute walk from the building site - a shower and a washing machine would be wonderful!).

So, would an alimentation de chantier be appropriate? Clearly, the coffret designed to be placed outdoors would be needed. But if the alimentation de chantier is intended to be a short term set up for a builder, can I get away with having that setup for 2 years? And since the builder and the owner are the same person, me, can I get EDF to give me an account while I’m using the alimentation de chantier and then just switch to using a standard meter box once the house is complete without having to pay a reconnection fee?

I don’t know where the electricity meter is placed in France. Attached to the house in a box? Or does it need to be by the road? - in which case, I visualise a trench of around 60 metres being necessary to bury a cable from the electric pole to the road, and then the same trench being used to carry the cable from the road back to the house.

Thanks for your help,

John

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More than appropriate, it is the only way to get mains power on site until your installation is passed by CONSUEL.

As I said above…

  • To be clear about temporary supplies….they are for up to a year - I always advise that you ask for that from day one. It is possible to extend them, but do so in good time - never let them cut you off as you will have to apply again, & will get charged the connection fee again.

Which is fine but you must pay attention to this part of my article above…

  • Also a “chantier” supply is intended for exactly that, a building site supply. If your supplier gets wind that such a supply is being used for any other purpose (such as living in the property) they are at liberty to disconnect it (& they do). Yes, plenty of people do live in their ongoing renovations, but don’t make it obvious if you do.

The temporary meter box must comply with what ENEDIS specify. A good source is Toulouselec. You can find many on the second hnad market but you must ensure that they are up to current normes.

No. Although you will keep the same client number you will be opening a new contract & there is a connection fee.

Follow the link I provided in my article. It fully explains about such things.

From your description you are in for a Type 2 installation, even if the supply can come from the road (the 30m limit is for cable length, not as the crow flies).

The single most important thing I wrote is this bit…

  • …you need to approach ENEDIS to get a price to create a new permanent electrical supply (“branchement définitif”) for the property. Whatever your immediate approach to get power is I strongly advise that you get this sorted sooner rather than later as you will then know what you are dealing with. Sometimes there are local grid issues which means that what seems like an easy connection is anything but (with a subsequent increase in cost…). Another bonus of doing this early is that if it involves any ground works (digging a trench…) you could use that excavation to get some 25mm² (or larger) bare copper wire in the ground to create your earth connection (domestic supplies in France do not have an earth terminal provided by the grid).

Also, your ENEDIS approved coffret de chantier will end up at the boundary, where the permanent meter will be sited. You then use your permanent private supply cable (that you will have buried as part of your overall groundworks) to supply power to the site itself, where you will need a suitable temporary distribution board (maybe in your “stockage”?).

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Hi,

Thanks for all that!

I have spent quite a bit of time living off grid, on a boat, and now in a cabin. I am familiar with setting up solar systems, and in the cabin currently, I have just two panels powering an ordinary domestic fridge, lights, recharging power tool batteries, and occasionally powering 240v power tools.

With the new house, I naively assumed that with the power line passing through the field and a pole being fairly near the house and with the price of electricity so much lower than in the UK, connecting to the grid was a no brainer.

Well, perhaps not. An increase in prices seems inevitable, and likely quite substantial in the long run - all those aging nuclear plants, plus their susceptibility to needing to be switched off in drought times, the lack of wind mills and solar in France. So I do want solar panels (they’re in the planning permission) and I’d have to buy an inverter anyway, so for the price of just getting connected (current estimate, 1400 euros) I could buy quite a bit of battery storage. So I’m going to have to look again into being off-grid that before deciding.

But thanks again - I got the impression you thought I hadn’t read your info well enough and was simply repeating my question. Sorry about that. I was actually paying attention, but I was looking to see how much wriggle room there might be… I can’t help it, but I’m rather averse to form-filling, deadlines, compliance in general I suppose. And there’d be quite a bit of work involved laying the cables from the power line down to the road and back to the house - there is a clump of trees in the way with their infernal roots.

You’ve given me enough info to make my decision, once I’ve looked again at the off grid option.

Cheers.

John

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Is that what ENEDIS have aready specified, or was it the view of a bloke in the pub? You will only really know by getting a devis from ENEDIS.

If your scenario is correct, & they have already given you a price of 1400€, then bite their hand off for it. ENEDIS have to carry out the initial link (& groundworks) from the pole to the coffret at the roadside as it involves unfused conductors.

By the sound of it your private return gaine & cable to the house could use the same trench for some of the distance, as long as you are around to drop it in when the work is done (& don’t forget that earthing opportunity).

Even if you considering not having a grid supply it may still be worth investing in getting the connection done now, due to the amount of groundworks. One also has to keep an eye open for resale issues. Unless you have a lot of battery storage overnight EV charging isn’t really an option without a grid connection - you can’t always rely on daytime solar to charge.

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You might have to put up with them if you want an agreeable life in France.

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The 1400 euros is from a devis from Enedis.

Of course - I was wrong about having to dig the trench from the pole to the road - as you say, that is their unfused supply, and their responsibility, and so those groundworks are down to them. And laying down my own cables from the coffret to the house while the trench is open would be great - there wouldn’t be a lot of digging for that last bit from their trench to the house, and no trees there.

You’re right too, to put in the likely need for EV charging further down the road. That would be a slow process with 6 panels (though it would maybe be enough for something like the Aptera). And likely they’ll introduce favourable rates for charging EV’s at night.

Thanks.

John

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Yes, I appreciate how different it is in France - I have gone through the process of getting planning permission, which involved a form or two and plenty of compliance. And I did learn to appreciate that behind the mountain of paperwork there’s a fair amount of good planning and reasonable requirements. It turned out that getting planning permission was easier than in the UK, and being free, far cheaper. And I got the kind of house I was after - almost passive house, compost toilet, a thing on legs on sloping ground. I’m not sure I’d have been able to get that in the UK without a lot of difficulty. So yes, I’m learning to accept (and even appreciate) the French way of doing things, but it seems to be in my nature to look for loopholes and ways around.

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Hi,
We have had a branchement provisoire 3kva since July 2020. Our house is now sufficiently finished that the wiring is done, consuel have been, and now it’s the usual chaos and runaround.Provisional date for branchement définitif is middle of January. Our experience was the contractors who connected us made us sign a disclaimer, we were living in the house, they were not happy, but accepted that it was that or nothing. I’m with EDF, never had a problem with either them or Enedis.
If you can go with the provisoire it’s less hassle for now, leave the definitive until everything is done. No stress, no solar yet, so don’t fret about it. Keep it simple. We are running the house just fine on 3kva.

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Hi Soggy,

I’ve followed the advice, and have now applied for an estimate for a connection to a coffret de chantier. I selected 12 kVa, but it might be possible to change that. The advantage of 3 kva is a reduced connection charge, but I think it’s not much different is it? I figured an electric kettle can use 3 kva, so if the washing machine was on when I wanted a cup of tea, fuses might pop? But you say the house is running fine on 3. No issues at all? And maybe one day we might have an electric car.

That’s encouraging you’ve had the branchement provisoire for so long without a problem.

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Although physical situations will differ that is generally bad advice. If you read my long initial post on this subject you will know why.

So you’re not bothering getting the messy groundworks done at the beginning of your project?

You also need to be aware that if the pole 30m north of house is the nearest point of connection then that is where your coffret de chantier will be i.e you won’t have the advantage of being able to use the branchement définitif as a source, nor have the convenience of using your private permanent cabling to bringthe supply to the building.

I’m sorry to bang on about this but I’ve seen too many people make the error (& false economy) of putting off getting their branchement définitif in place. It always costs more & creates more mess if it’s left, & don’t forget about getting your earthing done as a bonus whilst trenches are open.

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Good morning, we are running the electric oven, water heater, lights, hoover, washer, dryer, cement mixers, etc, electric heating… You become an expert at having in your head which appliances use how much and what is on.

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Badger,

You’re underestimating the depths of my misunderstanding.

I assumed that the difference between asking for a coffret de chantier and a branchement definitiv was just in the box itself - one, a temporary box on a post in the ground near the building works, the other, a box attached to the finished house. I thought the laying of cables in the ground would be roughly the same, with the coffret de chantier being placed near where the final box attached to the house would go. And more, when Soggy mentioned his branchement provisoire, I thought that was synonymous with having a coffret de chantier. Further, I don’t know where the meter would be placed - whether it might be in a box attached to the house, or it needs to be in a box by the road (the road being around 20m fron the house).

So, asking for a coffret de chantier and getting a branchement provisoire are two different things?

Maybe new French electric meters can be read remotely? I don’t know. So is it standard practice to place a box with the meter by the road, or can it be attached to the house? I think I read that it could be either, depending on the site, and that it was at the discretion of Enedis. But I’m not sure about that. I’ve been reading a lot, and all of it in a foreign language. If there doesn’t need to be a box by the road, that would save a lot of digging (whether I do it or pay Enedis to do it).

If there is to be a box placed by the road, I would certainly want to do that sooner rather than later, or else I’ll end up digging up my new driveway.

In asking for a quote from Enedis, I had to choose what kind of connection I wanted - house, business, and a few options. I tried ‘house’, and went through the form, and ended up on a page which asked when I wanted the connection made. After specifying that, I had to tell them when the house would be sealed, and it only offered dates earlier than the date I asked for the connection. So by selecting a connection to a house, the assumption was made that the house would be sealed before the connection was made. So I went back to the start and selected ‘Other’, and added a note that I wanted a coffret de chantier on the site. That seemed to work, and I had to upload my planning permission document and plan de masse.

Now it seems I would be better off with a quote for a branchement definitiv ending up in a coffret de chantier placed near the site of the house? That’s going to be testing my form-filling skills!

John

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No, not in this conversation, although the term “coffret de chantier” can also apply to a simple temporary distribution board used on a building site. Maybe we should start saying “coffret de compteur provisoire” instead.

No. There would be no laying of cables for the “coffret de compteur provisoire”. ENEDIS will tag it off of the easiest place nearby, which might be your pole, or possibly another permanent coffret in the street. If you look at the Touslouselec site you will see that there are precabled options for ground or aerial connections.

Your quote from ENEDIS will say. Also, study that link I put in my initial article about the difference between Type 1 & Type 2 installations. Even if ENEDIS are offering a Type 1 installation (due to the cable run being under 30m from the boundary connection point) you can still ask for a Type 2 & leave the meter at the boundary.

Yes, they now are - websearch “compteur Linky”. However, your temporary supply may not be fitted with one.

Exactly.

These are two separate things. You apply for the permanent supply. Once you have date for that you then arrange for the “coffret de compteur provisoire” to be connected just after that. It WILL be placed on the boundary at the coffret ENEDIS, regardless of your final meter position, hence my recommending that you use your private main cable to send that supply towards the empty building site, where you would need to put on your own local distribution.

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I’ve almost concluded I’ll buy a generator to use on site for the next year or two, and see about the electrical connection later. There’s a pole to the north of the house, and if I went for a connection direct from the pole to the house, there’d be no problems about digging up driveways. Also, if I waited till the house is watertight, I wouldn’t have to pay for a temporary supply and then pay more for a reconnection.

And then besides, I have made an application with ENEDIS, and they keep emailing me from a noreply account to make an appointment for a phone call. However, whenever I follow their link to try to arrange an appointment, all appointment slots are unavailable, whether I look in the next week, month or year. Today’s email says it’s my last chance to make an appointemt.

So yeah, I’m thinking, generator.