I haven’t see that figure either
There’s a chap called Chris Giles who is economics editor at the FT who has been using ONS data to try to estimate the actual number of excess deaths attributable to Covid - his current estimate being 123,800 which is fairly similar to the official figure (it was a good bit higher for a long time).
I have never heard BoJo make any reference to any other country’s vaccine statistics,feel free to correct me if I’m wrong
And I am still waiting to hear your scientific qualifications
Just how are those who are readmitted to hospital with Covid systems and then die after more than 28 days being classified?
If anyone has turned this into a nationalistic race, it is the EU with their unjustified remarks against the AstraZeneca vaccine.
Ursula van der Leyen and her insistence on the EU working as a whole is totally responsible for the delay in vaccination in Europe.
Are you talking Covid or long Covid Jane
rant removed
So the gap has reduced between officials and actuals, that’s good 
but the absolute number was never my point, it was just Eddie (I think) who latched on to it. My point is the difference between 123k and the 81k in France, or the 65k in Germany. The UK vaccine rollout IMO is being used to divert people’s attention form the stark reality. Johnson has promised at least two false dawns and this week he stood up and said he would follow the data, not dates and then proceeded to give a lot of dates. I’m just amazed at how a man who has been consistently wrong for nearly a year now has the neck to come up with plan N+1, again and people fall for it. Let’s see what happens when the schools reopen.
With all due respect Eddie, you are wrong. Neither Johnson nor Hancock have missed any opportunity to state that the UK rollout is the fastest in Europe.
Regarding my scientific qualifications, I wasn’t aware that they were needed to comment here. If there are that’s probably 99% of the contributors gone 
I suppose it is Long Covid, but it is the people who are re-admittted to ICU and then die after their original 28 days from initial diagnosis.
I don’t know where that’s come from Sue. Why would I want that?
I guess I just haven’t expressed myself accurately.
My whole career was based on data, I’m a data driven sort of guy. I don’t like flannel. The data associated with the Pfizer and Modena vaccines has never been in doubt. The data associated with the AZ vaccine (or the lack of it) has been a moving target since it was launched. I spoke to my daughter in Oz earlier, as a medic she’ll get her Pfizer vaccination next week, the punter’s will get the AZ version. Why are so many countries, except the UK, targeting different vaccines at different demographics? Did the UK jump the gun? I dunno but based on Johnson’s cavalier attitude it wouldn’t surprise me.
I don’t think the scientific basis for ignoring the manufacturer’s dosing recommendations has never been proven. IMO it’s a gamble (did you read the Lancet article Fleur posted?) which facilitated big headline grabbing numbers. You are conflating the “scientific world” with a small section of the UK “scientific world”. It’s only natural that if the “data” is changing all the time one’s confidence is eroded. Especially when politics and spin are added to the cocktail.
I’m not so quick to look at what’s happening in the UK and think it’s right. Why would my confidence in France and the EU be undermined by the strategy of a lying cheat who’s only (and I mean only) motivation has been making himself look good and getting himself off the hook?
I think the cooler heads amongst us will sit back, allow the French authorities to do their job and not measure ourselves against Johnson’s bluster, which has already driven the UK deaths to 50% more than we’ve experience here.
We can discuss which strategies were the best this time next year, meanwhile nous sommes en France, ayons un peu confiance
Siren Study…
BTW Eddie, I did hear Chris Whitty say that the effectiveness study in England was only on the Pfizer vaccine.
To be fair that situation wouldn’t happen often ,to be well enough to be discharged home and then be readmitted to ICU is rare. More likely to be stepped down in hospital then readmitted to ICU. I am not saying never as someone will doubtless find the details of someone somewhere
It’s all a devilish plot. First they give us the disease then the sell us the cure 
Connected to this, this literally just popped up on my Twitter feed. The U.K. Secretary of State for Health lying and misleading the public by claiming that at-home HPV swab tests are in fact smear tests and getting publicly rebuked by a museum I had no idea existed 
Notice one of the people I am following retweeted this, I am not following said museum, although I may start LOL
When I see
about an entire government who would lie to you if you asked them what their name was or what job they did they’re all such compulsive liars, I think a dose of heavy cynicism is wise.
@John_Scully, you may already be aware John but the gap between the first and second jabs for the AZ vaccine here is now up to nine weeks.
BTW John I know,and mentioned elsewhere on the forum that it was the Pfizer vaccination being referred to. This is copy pasted from a communication I received today
“New efficacy data is now available with Public Health England finding that one dose of the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine reduces hospitalisations and deaths by at least 75%. Analysis of the AstraZeneca vaccine efficacy continues, with promising early results.”
I participate in the siren study
Please I said the “Uk government says “to quote one lot of death figures I also gave another higher figure if you are going to quote me keep the context
I see we are not going to see eye to eye, I was making a general point, not a point directly related to the rest of your post which was why it made no sense to include it. I shall just remove you from it if it upsets you. 
Mate nothing here upsets me
