nope… you’ve already got one on the Free VAAP Salon thread… 
oh OK I will go and look!
@Charles_Field are you sure about this, if so there must be several thousand people breaking the law
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If that’s true, then many thousands of owners of holiday homes in France have been breaking the law.
I also think that this is the case.
@anon90504988 is the normal source for this topic - perhaps he can confirm.
Not wishing to get drawn into a big debate over this, I will try to answer briefly.
Those who look for a specific law that says that holiday home owners or visitors are not allowed will not find one.
The control is due to the use of the word “domicile”. I know that there are quite a few dictionary definitions but when the french authorities use it “domicile” refers to your principal residence of which most of us have only one.
If you live in Croydon but own a property in Normandy for holidays & weekend breaks, your principal residence is in Croydon.
So, when you look at the government guides in their original language you will see that one of the documents you need to show is proof of domicile (not “adresse” or “residence”) & goes on to say that an EDF bill or similar will do. Of course, second home owners will have one of these but to use it as proof of domicile would be untrue when it is only proof of the address of your second home. At the prefecture it was expected that the applicant would be honest & as 99.9% of those registering a car DID live full-time in France there would be no need to question the applicant - even if the person on the desk was aware of the difference. The result is that the registration would go through.
Technology has moved & prefectures no longer directly handle applications as it is all dealt with online.
In order to access the Agence Nationale des Titres Sécurisés (National Agency for Secure Documents, as in not handed out like confetti) you need to live here which means that you declare income, you are in the french healthcare system or are registered for social security. These organisations put you on the INSEE database, similar to the UK Electorial Roll, so most second home owners will not have these so direct access would be denied making registration of a car impossible.
This also applies to new arrivals though, so it this instance it is possible to use a third party to access ANTS. The third party has to make a declaration to ANTS though, & some either do not understand or possibly care what consequences they might face in the future. This is the declaration" Rimmer Mark certifie sur l’honneur s’être assuré(e) que FARAGE NIGEL est bien domicilié(e) à la nouvelle adresse renseignée et s’engage à mettre à disposition, sur demande des services du ministère de l’intérieur, toute pièce le justifiant." & the rule which should prevent honest people doing something they shouldn’t - “J’ai bien pris connaissance que “les fausses déclarations et l’usage de fausses déclarations sont punis de 3 ans d’emprisonnement et de 45 000 euros d’amende”, article 441-1 du code pénal. Je certifie notamment que les informations renseignées relatives au régime de propriété du véhicule sont exactes.”
The requirements are therefore clear & being from the UK or owning the property does not bestow any special treatment - a french person cannot register his car to his second home (which may well be in a more expensive tax zone than his principal residence, in case someone wants to bring up the feeble “registration tax” saving theory), an Italian can’t (europa.eu Q & A " I am Italian and every year I take a 3-month holiday in my second home in the French Alps, travelling by car. Can I register my car in France?
NO — You can only register your car in the country where you are permanently resident.) so why would the Brits be exempt?
On the point of the all important use of the word “domicile” This made interesting reading
" Amended by Order n°2020-1733 of 16 December 2020 - art. 4
The election of domicile is granted for a limited period. It is renewable by right and may only be terminated under the conditions set out in Article L. 264-5.
The communal or inter-communal social action centres and the approved organisations will provide the persons concerned with a certificate of election of domicile stating the date of expiry.
The certificate of election of domicile may not be issued to a person who is not a national of a Member State of the European Union, another State party to the Agreement on the European Economic Area or the Swiss Confederation, who is not in possession of one of the residence permits provided for in Title II of Book IV of the Code on the Entry and Residence of Foreigners and the Right of Asylum, unless he or she is applying for the State medical aid mentioned in Article L. 251-1 of the present code, legal aid pursuant to the third or fourth paragraphs of Article 3 of Law No. 91-647 of 10 July 1991 relating to legal aid or the exercise of civil rights recognised by law.
In accordance with Article 20 of Order No. 2020-1733 of 16 December 2020, these provisions come into force on 1 May 2021"
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Wow…thank you Mark!! Ok all of this has put the fear of god into me…don’t want any arrests, I am the last person to knowibgly take a risk luke this, I don’t think that will happen as no control technique and won’t take it out the garage…so will now need to pay for it to be collected and scrapped…sad!
We have checked and checked this over the years with credit agricole and the insurers, they have been informed of our situation and regularly just post all the car insurance stuff ‘green tabs’ certificates etc to us in England.
They are fully aware we don’t live in France.
I feel.like demanding a refund for the 20 yrs they have ‘insured’ us wrongly!
Thanks anyway.
If you’ve had 20 years’ worth use of the car, insured and all, you’ve done OK. I suppose the matter of “emprisonnement et de 45 000 euros d’amende” would have arisen in the event of an accident and claim.
Looks like you’ve gone straight before anything awful has occurred.
Sorry…me again, well I did start the topic!
Ok…Mark, I couldn’t just leave it…had to phone the bank and Pacifica Insurance.
All details given to them again…including advice from this site.
They must think.I’m mad but two people have completely assured us “and Madam, the many other second home owners with french cars that Pacifica insures, that you are completely covered…there are no problems with this”
Will leave it there.
Many thanks to all.
This would not be connected in any way with the fact that you give them money?
To be fair, any offence would have been committed at the time of registration but if a claim was large enough can you be sure that your insurance company would not find a loophole?
Surely the issue here is that registration and insurance are two separate issues. Within the framework of the law is up to the insurers what risks they will cover. I assume there is no law that specifically states that an insurer must not insure an irregularly-registered vehicle. It is up to them what risks they accept, they set their own terms and conditions. Just because you were not entirely within the law it doesn’t follow that they would not honor a claim on the policy. If you have an accident whilst driving at 150kph, you don’t expect them to refuse your claim on the grounds that you were disobeying the law. If their T&Cs specified that the policy was not valid for speeds in excess of the legal limit, then they could. But nobody would take their policies out.
Doesn’t matter what the insurers say tbh. It’s what is written in the small-print of the underwriters.
Just as an aside If we take our French registered car to the UK do we need an FR label on the back ?
If it’s the newer type of registration, it’s already on the numberplate
we have the new number but its a voiture de collection with the black and white plate no room for any “Flag”
You’re going to need a FR/EU sticker ( or magnetic plate if you can find one)
French insurance can be a bit funny.
In the UK if you have an accident & afterwards tested over the drink limit your insurance would cover you but your renewal would be expensive. In France, in the same scenario, your cover at the time of the accident would automatically drop to cover 3rd party only if you had fully comp. At least that’s what happened to a customer of mine.
I suppose in the UK situation it would be difficult to prove that the driver was over the limit at the moment of impact where in France it would be considered logical that you were!
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Unless you’re thinking of taking the Wolseley out of France… you don’t need to think about "F"s with or without stars and even then, I’m not sure…
I’ll ask my pal who drives his classic 2CV to Greece every year…
Except if you were breath tested at the scene and subsequently confirmed at the station the presumption in law would very much be that you were over the limit when driving.
I believe there have even been sucessful prosecutions based on back-extrapolating likely alcohol levels at the time of the accident where the test as been delayed (e.g. police not catching up with someone who fled the scene until later).