Good morning Stella, most if not all european airports use FCR as well as most european ports. The tunnel train uses it as well.
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Fair enough⊠I shall try to make sure I look presentable⊠
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OK, my comment was a bit below the belt and I have removed it.
No, the groups I have mentioned did not have access to facial recognition - but the point is that you donât have to look far to find examples, historical and current, where the state and/or agents of the state are not benign, and then techology hands them a weapon like face recognition.
If you were a serving officer for 30 years can you honestly claim that every case you were involved in, every conviction secured, was the result of diligent, thorough and fair police and detective work - none that were just a bit dodgy? Especially if your experience stretches back to the 70âs and 80âs
The scope for abuse of this technology is massive in a way that EngSoc would have drooled over.
For starters it is not 100% reliable so if you are picked out mistakenly your life can quickly become very difficult - especially as the technology is new so the authorities, especially officers on the ground are liable to accept it as reliable. Early DNA analysis was believed to be more reliable than it actually was leading to documented miscarriages of justice, and the early days of the TSA âno flyâ list were rife with names which shouldnât have been included and people detained because they happened to have the âwrong nameâ; pretty certain this still happens quite a bit.
But if coupled with the will to abuse it, itâs all pretty sinister - and it doesnât have to be targeting an individual per-se; suppose that just being seen âsomewhere unusualâ is enough to get you pulled in for questioning - that sort of pressure to conform is subtle and population wide, putting people in prisons where they canât see the walls but they are, nonetheless, there.
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Two of them are now in jail becase they were too lazy to do the work on a child abuse case.
That is in UK.
Historically I have personal experience of not trusting the gendarmerie in Cluny.
It is the operators of this technology that worries me as well.
People who have been arrested, but not charged have their data on these databases.
People who attend legal demonstrations were also added to databases.
Definitely worrying.
You can add the threat of not pursuing rape claims if victims donât hand over their mobile 'phones.
Whilst I can appreciate that there might be cases where that is necessary, I have no confidence that it will not be used sensitively.
Just look at how Cambridge Analytica used data from Facebook to target individuals via their computer before the Referendum.
We are still waiting to see these people in court.
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How worrying that a former police officer is not concerned that they are doing everything right.
There is a huge difference between protecting civil rights and the rightful prosecution of offenders.
Jane it is the operators who give this /these systems a bad repute. But to use a system such as FCR, they have to have a database to which the FCR can refer. I agree, wrongful arrests are made and generally due to the in adequate knowledge and experience of the operators (ie. those that sit oggling in the monitors), G4S being the prime one here. Every time you fly to spain or wherever and your passport is presented, the details are being held on a database somewhere in the world. It is at the end fof the day down to the operator, and much less the system.
I totally agree with and understand your reasoning.
There are many issues that could arise from the use of this technology.
But, I am happy to accept it if it helps diminish the chances of me getting blown up in a terrorist incident.
Unfortunately injustice exists, largely due to corruption and criminality. But also through twisted reasoning of what people think is justice.
Fortunately the death penalty does not exist in the UK, amongst other reasons unsafe and wrongful convictions are why I totally agree that it should not.
The UK, (I assume most of the EU) have very stringent control over the use of surveillance etc. Things can be abused, often by States, to control their own citizens.
On the whole, as Europeans going about our normal life lawfully we will never be troubled by the issues to which we have referred.
It is a fine balance.
I have no problem with carrying an ID card, because it has been normal for me since I was a child, I.e. bus/train pass, student card, driving licence and warrant card. (Now my treasured titre de séjour).
But many civil liberties groups in the UK have issues with mandatory ID cards, thus making technology more useful.
How do these proponents of civil liberties deal with the same issue when they move to live, or visit European nations, where many necessitate the carrying of ID?
We could go on foreverâŠ
Take care
Whilst i dont necessarily agree to this happening, there are some cases where if it had happened, the alleged victim would have been in the dock, not the hard working, innocent, Joe, whoâs life has been ruined by the malicious âvictimâ who was also known to the west midlands plod for their allegations.
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Absolutely.
It is demeaning and whilst my DNA was not taken I was forced to attend the gendarmerie to have my fingerprints taken and photographed , even though the Prosecutor had refused to take the case they had brought against me.
When I asked why, I was told that the Cluny Chief wanted it done to tidy up the file.
So me, an innocent person, was humiliated and totally distressed to tidy up a file.
The sergeant actually tried to shake hands as we left!
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Jane, where do you get that reasoning from, everything should be done right. I am however referring to the balance between safety and civil liberties.
I nearly cried when I read your comment, cutting 
I think the reassuring part there is that they are in jail,they were found out and punished
I am sorry that you were put in such a situation.
It is appalling.
Yes the mobile phone issue wasnât necessarily reported well. It was all about disclosure and making all evidence available. Sometimes mobile phones will contain evidence essential to a fair trial
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Andrew i agree. I also have carried id cards since i was 16 when i joined the army, afterwards i carried id living in Germany, Austria and switzerland. I, like those resident do not have any problems with that. I think it sorts out the wheat from the chaff, if stopped by law enfocement and an id is presented, fine be on your way, they are doing their job. Like you say i would also love to see those who think it is encroaching on their civil liberties and freedoms if they had to apply and carry such a document. In the UK you can buy a driving licence, so not much good as a form of identification. In my opinion, the UK is too soft and too liberal in many aspects and if brexit does happen must harden its approach to such matters.
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Jane, that is a very complicated issue, which the press have jumped on. There is a lot more to it. I am not saying it is the correct policy.
However, do you know how important mobile phone technology is to a serious case? What it can prove or disprove, movements of offender, victim etc, corroborating or disproving their versions of events. Text messages, photos, etc, etc.
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Interesting one. I was reading the other day about your Computer Camera spying on you, which makes one wonder doesnât? I donât think I am a Digital Luddite despite not understand much above 20% of what the Hell is going on. God help any poor bastard who gets a glimpse of me in my underpants via my computer - thatâll put the bastard off his breakfast!
I see mini-cameras on the web for small pence even, and say âwhy not?â But do I REALLY, REALLY want to know everything my wife gets up to? Or anyone else for that matter, but again if it is down to personal security itâs hard to argue against it.
Andrews and Arnold - although you need one of their more expensive packages to hold on to a block of IPv4 these days.
There was a point I semi-seriously considered having a 2nd ISP and applying for my own block but that always seemed way too OTT for a domestic connection; kind-of wish Iâd done so now.
At least A&A havenât made any noises about giving up my IPv4 addresses for the time being.
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