The thrust of the original post by Holly was to do with her perception that the majority of contributors here on SFN seemed to assume that all members were British. Therefore, you have proved her point by including the Irish in your original comment this evening and I quote: "I dont think there are many pure bred Scotts, Welsh, Irish or English....". I am merely pointing out that the Irish come from the Republic of Ireland should not ever be included in any statement which refers to Britain or UK. Furthermore, almost 50% of the population of Northern Ireland consider themselves to be Irish and/or hold Irish passports - a situation which has its genesis in the bullying tactics of the ruling classes of the day.
Ok...lets exclude the Irish and only include Northern Ireland...the folks from Northern Ireland travel around....and so do people from Ireland...clearly not part of the UK....better?
However, your point is slightly flawed by an attempt to include the Irish in this statement, as evidently, we are not Brits, and to this day, many Irish NEED to travel abroad to find work. Yes, there were a few good years back in Ireland with a growing economy, until the Americans ended it all (but that is for another discussion/topic).
Brian....I am well aware of your dislike of the English...what exactly are you hoping for here? an apology for the English behaviour of the past...? really? If anyone holds their head up high, it should be because they are good people and are rightly proud of what they do, how they treat people (all people) and their humanity.....not because they are from a particular country...which is no more than an accident of birth...non of us choose our nationality.
Not me personally Sheila....and Im part Irish myself.....nowadays...there are many young Irish people who wish to see the world before they decide to settle down, some back in Ireland, others elsewhere. My point remains, most Brits travel.
Yes, 30 years ago or more, all those Irish immigrants in New York. Why? There was nothing for them back in Ireland, a country which had been almost wiped out by its nearest (and bigger) neighbour.
Thank you Sheila, I believe the rough figure for the Highland evictions and 'transports' of culpably destitute (wonderful contradiction in terms, is it not) to the colonies came to about 46% of the population of Scotland and then many went of their own choice after... There are more Welsh, Cymru, speakers in Argentina in settlements around mining, quarrying and sheep farming areas than there are in Wales. In Australia New South Wales was the dumping ground, sorry I know I should say place of resettlement, fot the troublesome Welsh. Carol, have a good read on the breeches of human rights against the people of the British Isles by their English overlords and be glad you are mostly Irish - you can hold your head high. History is not what the ruling classes write, but what the 'underclasses' suffered. Sheila, over to you.
Not really any of those Sheila....I have kids who travel well and extensively and whose friends are nearly always Irish young people...similar ages, travelling the world. Likewise every country we have ever been to we have met lots of Irish folk....Of course there are huge numbers in the USA and certainly 30 years ago a whole area of New York was inhabited by Irish immigrants. I think travelling goes with coming from small islands...most islanders...and here I include the UK, tend to travel.
Carol, the Irish people who travel the highways and byways in Ireland are called travellers. I think they may be called gypsies in other countries, and I am not one of them! If you meant the Irish are good travellers, in that they travel to other countries, well you may wish to talk to your Irish branch of the family - who would report that a huge majority were forced to go, many as prisoners bound for Botany Bay because they had stolen a loaf of bread to feed their starving children.
I dont think there are many pure bred Scotts, Welsh, Irish or English...we are mostly a ragbag of all and a mix of others too. I am by percentage mainly Irish with a dab of German and a smidge of Spanish...my OH is part Irish, part Scottish and part Canadian....Irish folk tend to be known as travellers...maybe the Scotts are too, but not aware of the Welsh as great movers....I think the English do move around a lot....many certainly went to Australia on the assisted passage in the 60s. There are also plenty of 'English' in France and Spain....and the US.
No problem. I'm in linguistic limbo after speaking only French for so long. Translating thoughts from French to English can be clumsy and my spell check doesn't want to change. Take care of that shoulder!
One point Susan, please excuse my typing! I have a broken shoulder and sometimes get trembles that make my fingers errant and the wierdest spellings create themselves!
Pleased to see that we can get along after all and thanks for your explanation Brian. You have a good weekend too!
I was emphasising to make a point, perhaps the nuance of the written English form is different enough from the 'American'. The American ghetto is simply reflecting what you said 'They all worked for Thomson who took care of them as far as housing among other things.'
Otherwise, yes, you are quite right about my Chicgo friend. Like me, he is an anthrpologists, and perhaps we get quirky and overuse despite being trained to avoid such terminology. He is particularly sensitive since as a student he was told that they supposed he would be dashing off to Africa to look for ancestors like the rest of them. In fact, he came to England as a postgraduate and then studied the Basques. When he went back to the USA despite his thesis and PhD he was often told that there were more than enough Africanists, which he is not, in fact he is classifiable as a Europeanist in that sense.
In terms of my friends, I guess the ethnicities are important to them to a point. One friend is especially into her Armenian origins, albeit some generations back. Another has all but turned over every possible stone in what was an East German city until recently, looking for what he could find out about his great grandparents who went from there but with a Russian name very atypical for Jews. Perhaps it permeates, it is not meant to invade and take over. Other people like Mike in California is just Mike and that is it. So, I don't think the Afro bit is important, however in making distinctions to compare with the differentness of a geographic grouping, British, it sets a context only.
But yes, close, not touchy but totally fed up with being told that as a 'Brit', 'Anglais' or whatever the translation is I am such and such. I am a British stereotype opponent and will deny it for myself at the drop of a hat, like many Scots (and the others - we moved here from Wales where they are fiercely proud of being Welsh as we discovered) because we are seen as an extention of the English stereotype, which also does not exist except as a caricature. My wife does the same, she is Swiss Italian and refers to herself as Ticinese which people from her canton do normally. When recently told by somebody who has 'been to' Switzerland' that most speak French and the rest German (it is quite the opposite proportionately anyway) she told the guy she is from the Italian speaking minority. The stupid man asked if they were illegal immigrants because Italian is not a Swiss language. He then got full broadsides for the insult to which she added the fourth language Rumantsch if he cared to find out before shooting off nonsense. Yes, sterotyping is hurtful and it unwittingly finds victims.
By the way. It was please do not 'shout', not 'scream'. It was me as well and also it was a joke that had nothing to do with that nasty stereotype. Everybody has those, every nation I have been in of many, so I do not attach that to some kind a caricature from the USA, it was a deliberately silly statement about how none of us should get heated about it.
Anyway, I am not disagreeing with you at all. Language is sometimes so stupid because nuances get in the way of common understanding and lead to exchanges like this. But then Susan, put a Londoner (not Cockney though), Brummie (Birmingham), a Geordie (Newcastle) and Mancunian (Manchester) who all speak their city's dominant dialect in a room together, watch and listen. Not only would you and I soon get lost but those people would soon wonder what on the planet Earth was going on... And that, Susan, is just little England, then there is the rest of the world, big number to call...
Take it easy and have a good Sunday
Hi Bruce,
To tell you the truth, I didn't notice. Some of the friends I have were made during this thread. Others because they live close to where I live. I can tell you that two close friends of mine here are Irish, and one is American with Scandinavian roots (her parents were not born in America). Two other friends are Canadian and one friend, whom I miss, has moved back to Australia. Before I moved to France, I lived in Holland. I had three friends that I talked to a lot while I was there. One friend there that I keep in touch with came from New Zealand and has lived in Holland for over 10 years. One was born and raised in Holland. The other was from Dover in England. I have more friends now who are NOT from the United States than I do friends who are.
I'm glad that the American "national" mentality that you mention has NOT stopped you from getting to know Americans on a personal basis. I can promise you that 95 percent of my personal time, I'm not talking about anything that has to do with Americans or the United States (I say of my personal time because as a teacher of English in an International section, I'm encouraged to speak about my experiences in the states). I just noticed that a lot of threads talked of Brits and I wanted to voice that there are other nationalities on the site.
Brian, I am a Scot, albeit one brought up in the midlands, and I've always been reserved aka shy, whatever you like to call it, it meant I came across as a tad unwelcoming when that was the opposite of what I meant to be. One of the great benefits of age is increasing confidence. And British nationals have a right to move within the EC, Americans don't, so even if they are more enterprising and adventurous than the Brits you're still likely to find many more Brits, especially in places where people retire to, than Americans because we Brits don't have to jump through a million hoops to get permission to stay.
Shoud read "there you go...."
Brian my ancestors are Scottish, English and Irish so wouldn't British be correct.? My Mother being half Irish would never have accepted the confusion. I may be a little dense here but what's your point about the American ghetto? Ah....stereotypes! In your previous comment weren't you stereotyping heavily? Several times I've seen that you 've written that you have an Afro-American friend from Chicago. For me, he would just be a friend from Chigago or an American friend. Why is the" Afro" part so important to you? You didn't say "white" friends from New England. You have your identity and are also quite touchy about it as far as I can see. I think that sterotypes are cruel and stupid and I didn't mean to step on your identity. I too am sensitive. After my first comment on this topic I wrote that maybe Americans "need to make their voices heard on SFN" and right away someone wrote "as long as you don't scream." It was funny but also hurtful as far as stereotypes go. So ther you go Brian! mea culpa
Holly, I couldn’t help but notice thst all your friends on here are Non Brits, apart from one. Maybe you’re subconciously, or not, being selective,because of warranted or unwarranted predjudices.
I consider there is an American “national” mentality, which I don’t like. This wouldn’t stop me from enjoying individual Americans for who they are. It’s very easy to tar all groups with the same brush. There are some very boorish Brits in the world, especially, expats, but it doesn’t make them all the same.
Susan, I meant only that the English are more sedentary than other peoples from the British Isles. And there you are saying the British again. There are English, Scots, Irish and Welsh all of whom live on the British Isles. there are relatively few common denominators unless Colin Firth and Helena Bonham-Carter type characters are the sterotype you are looking at.
As for your 'American' ghetto (also what is an 'American'? - my friends come from New England to California then up and down, plus a close Chicago born Afro-American friend, who prefers England to the USA...), well some people from the British Isles do that too. Not so far from us Eymet in the Dordogne is often referred to as p'tit Angleterre because of the high concentration...