are we looking at a north/south divide here? James which department are you and your family in/from and same question to celeste if i may ask?
celeste and others, it is disturbing. If I had had my way I would still be with the (then) girl I married in 1967. Many marriages does not automatically make rapists, tarts or anything else. It can, but not always. My second wife, the one who visits and with whom my present wife and I work, and I divorced because we worked together so much we forgot our personal life and she met a couple of other men. She and I agreed we made damned good colleagues, so gave each other freedom. The next one was a stupid mistake on both our parts, but no affairs or unpleasantness despite needing to make it look acrimonious so that the Norwegian authorities could divorce us. We are still civil to each other as well. My wife now is a rebound too. We are happy with children, a life here and enough wisdom to last more lifetimes than either of us can ever enjoy. I never wanted several marriages, my wife never wanted two and a set of damaged other relationships. They happen. It is sad, it is wrong. I have recently seen something on Facebook that I found shocking about people not being able to tell the difference between statements made by convicted rapists and fiction in a lad-mag. It is outrageous that society can sink that low. Hitting anybody is wrong, violence is never justified at all, so it is not as simple as hitting women is a criminal offence - it should all be. It is easy to be shocked by what shocks people so that they hide behind their reactions and say that 'rape' is justifiable. No force in this world is justifiable. The fashion for violent young men to anally rape victims is a nightmare, but there are girl gangs using bottles and heaven only knows what else on other young women and men too. I work with criminologists all too often to keep away from those horrible truths because of what I have done for some decades professionally studying children (and youth - since my field is 0 to 18 ages) and some of what happens early on is beyond scary. Cultural pastimes, my foot, it is what some of our species has allowed to happen and even encouraged. Contempt breeds contempt.
So please do not short cut into blaming men for it all, try SOCIETY instead because if you only try to change half the other half is surely going to do worse than the ones you've just made 'better' in order to exact a bitter revenge.
Sara I wasn't seriously advocating a swift kick in a tender spot.... i probably would try to laugh it off and tell him not to be so silly ... value him as a family friend etc etc.....
Sara i've ordered that book should be here thursday... can't wait! My french 'adopted' daughter who is 25 (she lived with me for 5 months this summer and i learnt an awful lot about french culture from her) even gets fed up with the innuendos, gossiping and flirting that goes on in her office, she complained to her father who said 'that's just the way it is'.... hmmmm
And I thought it was % a sec (dry cleaning) now I see - Honey I'll be late at the office.
i put it down to diet.... too much garlic and onions... combined with red meat, wine, brandy..... clearly a magical potion for lustiness....... -) now, if the whole country turned veggie over night, knocked garlic/onions (and their relatives, leeks etc) off the menu, gave up wine, alcohol and then turned all that sexual energy inward to develop their 'Ka' body (spirit body) OMG what a country!!! (only half kidding here......)
Is it anything to do with libido and testosterone?!
yes Sara fine lines hand kissing is always lovely and very polite and respectful..... a word that come to mind 'respect' the mutual exchange of it.... some of the relationship changes Brian describes clearly illustrate a strong sense of respect for the old relationship and the current one... personally i believe that when love leaves - so should you! But unwanted sexual advances from someone you regarded as a friend (the portly chap you describe) at a time when you were most vulnerable simply leaves me speechless - i take it a firm kick in the b...s is strictly off the table?? (sorry i forgot my buddha nature for a min there!).... -))
Hi, can I suggest this book ~ am I allowed?
My daughter - she in the UK , Me a single women in France - bought it for me a few years ago (nothing has changed) Lucy Wadham explains it all. The French "male thing"
Hmmm perhaps it is why I have avoided liasons with French men - well tried to! Most seem to find marriage no bar to "dates" Where as "the wife" should understand this and behave - in my experience BTW - I would never knowingly "date" a married man - even if his wife does not understand him!
"Droit du seigneur" Still exists and is alive and well See DSK et al as example
I also had the experience of some one ( a little fat older man) who was a friend/neighbour to me and my husband at our holiday apt before I moved here alone. When he heard that my husband had died he came to visit on his own to the permanent house I had bought and started to try and - well it turned into a Benny Hill - so I threatened to tell his wife and swore at him in French. He thought because I was alone I must be "gagging for it"
George Clooney perhaps , but not that absurd little old fat man that I had thought of as a "friend"
So do we accept it? As a feminist I find it a bit difficult but as my French improves I am trying to make a little difference.
I think there is a difference between a little bit of "flirting" to full on sexual inuendo and unwanted sexual touching . Some do not see the difference - one can be flattering the other makes you down right uncomfortable . A kiss on the hand is much nicer than a grab of the ,,,,,,,
Interesting idea Elaine. No divorce is alive and well but far less brandished pointlessly about than it is in British society. My ex mentioned below genuinely fell for somebody else, we are still friends 40+ years on, my younger daughter's teacher who is a bit of a mate of mine is divorced and still gives his ex the customary kiss greeting and chats when she has the children direct from school. They now live with him and that is very normal here, many of us are looking for suitable new candidates for him, especially divorcees, so that he has a grown up in the house. Nobody fusses about any of it, no faff-faff-faff and hate each other forever. My second ex comes her to saty with us at least once a year. We both work with her at time, certainly write with and for her for publication and so on. Whoever created the Anglo-American mess has a lot to answer for.
so the biggest stigma is to get divorced is that about right?? And affairs are tolerated so long as the family unit isn't threatened (then of course the whole fabric of french society would be at risk)...
Oof, since my Corsican Mrs circa 1967 I have seen the French have stable marriages, affairs, big but short lived drama and back to stability until next round. Either or both might have a fling and the end of it and the fall out is a mere flash in a very hot pan that soon goes cold. They ain't like us you know (ask any of my ex-wives or the present one)!
Having spent many years living here it seems to me that it's alright for men to have affairs, flirt, be sexy... but damn any woman who openly does the same!
The only thing worse than an adulterous wife, in these parts, is a single mother...
Where does all this happen or am I just blind to it? Wish the ladies had the same attitudes as the French blokes.
from experience it's all pretty much accepted
Oh and what about the single english gal coming over to carve out her dream?? (yes me!) the old wedding ring trick clearly isn't going to wash with our amorous french cousins??? any suggestions???
okay so what happens then? do the adulterous wives get tarred and feathered and the men step out ten paces... or is it semi-accepted as part of french catholic life?? And what about the husbands of wives being given the eye?? do they turn a blind one for the sake of french/english good relations or square up to the flirtatious french man.................signed 'shocked of manchester' -))))
There is a retired couple in our village, moved from Paris for a quieter life about 5 years ago, but within a few years of moving in he had taken up with another retired lady in the village and moved into her house. The wife is still very friendly with both of them, but I find it a bit of a weird situation!
it is the same for me - middle aged, invisible in the usa etc, and groped here by my neighbor whose wife is my friend! i didn't like it though. it was incessant and obnoxious and even puzzling. and in our town there was a similar menage a 3! i don't think the french are sexier, and just read a european survey that said only 12% of europeans thought fr women sexy! as for the men, i think they are brought up to act like that, and they are the most sexist men in the world! no equality here, the vote for women after ww2; one pays for these 'attentions'...
last survey I saw on this was that although the latin nations come on strong the worst offenders for affaires/those who had the most affaires were non other than the English!