Yes that is what I thought.
It will make no practical difference which card a person holds but they may feel happier in their own mind with a 10 year one.
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Thank you all for your rapid replies. Much appreciated.
Ongoing I understand the WDA residency card now thanks to your clarifications. How long it lasts and when to apply for a new 10 year card. Does anyone have a website that they would recommend - if you are able to do that - which has the different conditions of residency needed etc? I know the 183 days is a big consideration and I did think that financially I needed to have a certain amount of revenue for the first 5 years under the WDA but again I was told by the same tax consultant that now that I have the card there are no conditions on the capital I am bringing in?
I wonder why you are asking a tax consultant for advice on residency issues?
The full text of the Withdrawal Agreement is easily accessed online. In your situation, the issue is, how France will interpret this text and how they will implement it. Does your tax consultant have contacts in France who have confirmed that France has already decided that it will continue to be very tolerant? I think it’s probable that it will, but I do not know how your tax adviser can be sufficiently sure of this to state it categorically.
This is the text of relevant part of the withdrawal agreement:
"Article 16
Accumulation of periods
Union citizens and United Kingdom nationals, and their respective family members, who before the end of the transition period resided legally in the host State in accordance with the conditions of Article 7 of Directive 2004/38/EC for a period of less than 5 years, shall have the right to acquire the right to reside permanently under the conditions set out in Article 15 of this Agreement once they have completed the necessary periods of residence. Periods of legal residence or work in accordance with Union law before and after the end of the transition period shall be included in the calculation of the qualifying period necessary for acquisition of the right of permanent residence.
As you can see it refers to “residing legally” and “legal residence” and Article 15 explains the conditions attached to legal residence.
### Right of residence for more than three months
1.All Union citizens shall have the right of residence on the territory of another Member State for a period of longer than three months if they:
(a)are workers or self-employed persons in the host Member State; or
(b)have sufficient resources for themselves and their family members not to become a burden on the social assistance system of the host Member State during their period of residence and have comprehensive sickness insurance cover in the host Member State; or
*(c)are enrolled at a private or public establishment, accredited or financed by the host Member State on the basis of its legislation or administrative practice, for the principal purpose of following a course of study, including vocational training; and
*have comprehensive sickness insurance cover in the host Member State and assure the relevant national authority, by means of a declaration or by such equivalent means as they may choose, that they have sufficient resources for themselves and their family members not to become a burden on the social assistance system of the host Member State during their period of residence; or
(d)are family members accompanying or joining a Union citizen who satisfies the conditions referred to in points (a), (b) or (c).
2.The right of residence provided for in paragraph 1 shall extend to family members who are not nationals of a Member State, accompanying or joining the Union citizen in the host Member State, provided that such Union citizen satisfies the conditions referred to in paragraph 1(a), (b) or (c).
3.For the purposes of paragraph 1(a), a Union citizen who is no longer a worker or self-employed person shall retain the status of worker or self-employed person in the following circumstances:
(a)he/she is temporarily unable to work as the result of an illness or accident;
(b)he/she is in duly recorded involuntary unemployment after having been employed for more than one year and has registered as a job-seeker with the relevant employment office;
(c)he/she is in duly recorded involuntary unemployment after completing a fixed-term employment contract of less than a year or after having become involuntarily unemployed during the first twelve months and has registered as a job-seeker with the relevant employment office. In this case, the status of worker shall be retained for no less than six months;
(d)he/she embarks on vocational training. Unless he/she is involuntarily unemployed, the retention of the status of worker shall require the training to be related to the previous employment.
4.By way of derogation from paragraphs 1(d) and 2 above, only the spouse, the registered partner provided for in Article 2(2)(b) and dependent children shall have the right of residence as family members of a Union citizen meeting the conditions under 1(c) above. Article 3(2) shall apply to his/her dependent direct relatives in the ascending lines and those of his/her spouse or registered partner.]
Regarding the 183 days in the residency/tax year there is definitely confusion out there as I researched another well known living in France website and they said that 183 days refers to the tax calendar year. So I will continue my research but thanks for your ideas. My issue is that I work across both countries and there are certain time restrictions due to my working life/residency life, so I need to be clear from the beginning whether to note my days in France from when I arrived in July 2020 or work from Jan-Dec each tax year. Then I need to fine tune the travel days as to which country claims what. If you are travelling but arrive in France before midnight I would class that as a French day. For coming back to the UK I guess you start your day from the time you arrive in the UK - day 1 if after midnight … c’est un peu compliqué… passez une bonne fin de journée et merci b encore une fois.
Thank you for your time. I guess the only reason I asked by tax consultant was because there seems to be so much confusion around many people with the issue, and it was simply in passing. However I appreciate your advice and I will continue to look at and follow all the regulations. I sadly do not find legal documents easy to digest and understand so for me I value talking it through with someone but that is where the misinterpretations can creep in so thanks for the guidance.
My advice would be to rely on official sources rather than a “well known living in France website”. This from the EU website may help
page 9
Rules on absences
2.15.I arrived in the host EU state in 2018 to study. In 2020, I
studied in another EU Member State on Erasmus+ for five
months and then returned to the host EU state. I hope this
move has no negative impact on my residence in the host EU
state!
It has no impact on your rights in the host EU state. EU law on free movement says that periods
of absence of less than six months in a year do not affect continuity of residence. These
safeguards are included in the Withdrawal Agreement as well.
2.16.According to the Withdrawal Agreement, I can be absent for up
to six months a year without endangering my residence status
in the host EU State. What does “six months a year” mean?
The “six months a year” rule in the Withdrawal Agreement copies the same rule of the Free
Movement Directive. It has the same interpretation. Under the EU Free Movement Directive EU
citizen may be temporarily absent for periods not exceeding a total of six months within each
year. Each year starts on the anniversary of the date when the EU citizen commenced residence
in the host country.
(my bold)
thank you again so much. Appreciate your time - very thoughtful.
Working across 2 countries are you employed or self-employed? If the former maybe your employer can help with these questions.
thank you for the reply but I am self employed. But it is all coming together though thanks to research and some thoughtful answers on Survivefrance.com this weekend so on avance. Merci b.
It occurs to me possibly your local tax-office might be a good place to have a chat about this.
must confess, from the original post… I thought we were talking about UK folk visiting France hence the Simulator which has been especially devised for just that…
Tax stuff is a completely different kettle of fish, I reckon… and as @vero suggests… the local Tax Office might give the best response on Tax related enquiries…
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But if your “foyer” is in France, France will consider you to be tax resident irrespective of where you spent your time during the tax year. Given that in order to maintain her residency francine will presumably consider her foyer to be in France, the French tax office has no need to look any further. I cannot see why would be interested in how many days she had spent inside or outside France since it makes no difference to her tax status. As far as I know the French tax return does not ask about days.
From what I know of HMRC’s statutory residence test, the number of days you can spend in the UK without being regarded as tax resident depends on the number of “ties” you have. Working in the UK for more than 3 hours a day on 40 separate days during the tax year would be a “work tie”, having spent more than 90 days in the UK during either or both of the previous tax years would be a “90 day tie”, havin accommodation available in the UK would be an “accommodation tie”. With two ties one is considered resident if one spends over 90 days in the UK during the tax year, with three ties one is considered resident if one spends over 45 days in the UK. From what francine has said it would be near impossible to avoid dual tax residency. Best left to the tax advisor to sort out I think, but make sure to use a good advisor who is clued up on this aspect. But cannot see that in the circumstances183 days has any great significance either for HMRC or for the French tax office.
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If you were working as a cross border worker prior to the 31/12/20 then you are permitted to continue to do so and still have your residency here. There are those that commute back to the UK every week but the family stays in France and this is allowed even though thye are not actually spending the full 183 days / year here.
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Thank you all for your comments and information. Very helpful. Bonne journée.