There’s an irony that they don’t realise joining a faith like joining a club actually makes it weaker. If you’re there but only paying lip service then you will not share the values and WILL make choices that degrade it’s values.
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I’m just going to keep reusing this gif…
So this morning another 6 Palestinians shot dead by the IDF bringing the total to over 400 since the ceasefire.
This is quoted from today’s Guardian.
“The war in Gaza started after Hamas-led militants killed about 1,200 people and took 251 hostage on 7 October 2023. All but one of the hostages and their remains have been returned to Israel in exchange for Palestinian detainees and prisoners under the ceasefire deal.
More than 70,925 Palestinians have been killed in Israel’s war on the territory, around half of whom were women and children, according to the Gaza health ministry. The death toll is expected to rise as more bodies are found under the rubble.”
And that’s not even considering the wounded and those killed or wounded on the West Bank.
The current racist and ultranationalist Israeli politicians have created and fomented this, shame on them all.
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Aswell as the ongoing genocide - THIS is happening simultaneously! Israel approves 19 new Jewish settlements in occupied West Bank | Palestine | The Guardian
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There is no ceasefire - except in the twisted minds of Trump and Netanyahu. The ‘end goal’ is and has always been to kill as many Palestinians as possible (no matter what their age, gender, political views etc.) and to drive the rest by force into neighbouring countries.
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I find your views offensive…not to say totally inaccurate.
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There’s a price to standing up and being counted.
This is just a Muslim news channel’s special pleading when it sees that support for terrorist organisations is being restrained. It’s more of that “four legs good, two legs bad” argument, I think, where we are expected to choose a side in an historic conflict where - at different times - each side has outdone the other in evil.
However, unless one says that no evidence emanating from Israel is reliable - which would be an extraordinary and extremist proposition - it is reasonable for such evidence to be assessed and, if it meets whatever the threshold is in a particular jurisdiction, an arrest should follow. (What politicians say about arrests is irrelevant, but certain news organisations know which buttons to press.)
Al-Jazeera’s article shows that the evidence is being assessed or reassessed in the usual way. Mohammad Hannoun hasn’t even been tried, as far as I can tell, and certainly not convicted. But it’s all good propaganda to show how beastly Israel is and - at the same time - to drum up opposition to and curtailment of terrorist support.
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Ah that’s alright then. I’m sure that nice Mr. Netanyahu and his friends would never make up evidence to silence protest. They probably didn’t really kill 73,000 Palestinians either, or rape some of them to death in prison - it’s all just made up by the Muslim press.
Sorry, that is more than a little sharp-edged, but to just write this off as a smear attempt by the Muslim press is astonishing.
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Don’t worry: we both know how tediously partisan SF is 
I hoped it was clear that I’m not defending Israel, but equally not going to accept AJ’s attempt to make something of relatively little, and to gloss over the lack of any trial, let alone conviction. It seems to me that the systems in the civilised world (let the reader understand) are working reasonably well.
AJ is perhaps smarting from the upholding of the legality of the proscription of Palestine Action. One thing I’ve noticed is the way propaganda (I agree, this example is relatively mild) is being used to wage war against western opinion. If Russia does it, why not other organisations?
It’s not Porridge. What Israeli sources do you use?
Netanyahu lies, Israel Katz, Defence (LOL) minister lies, the finance minister and supporter of murder of Palestinians in the West Bank is a liar, the security minister and taunter of international, cabled tied, kneeling protesters (how Nazi is that?) kidnapped in international waters, Ben-Givr is a liar. Even the opposition is packed with liars. The IDF lies. Israel is rotten (and land greedy) to the core.
The only sources I trust (and subscribe to) are Haaretz, https://www.haaretz.com the Israeli paper of record and https://www.btselem.org These are amazingly courageous organisations and people, and IMO the only hope for Israel to recover from being an apartheid, genocidal state that will be erased in due course.
Give me a break Porridge, being shocked and dismayed by the slaughter of tens of thousands of women and children by an overwhelming military force controlled by a religious land greedy bunch of scum isn’t partisan. Is it? 
Despicable. Obviously a counter to the Hind Rajab Foundation, https://www.hindrajabfoundation.org which I also make modest contributions to. No IDF member should ever feel safe from arrest and prosecution in the EU again, no less than Nazis after the war. Though to be fair, I suspect that as a percentage, less of the Wehrmacht were directly involved in killing women and children than the IDF. The IDF would be more akin to the SS in my opinion. They’d feel quite happy in an Oradour-sur-Glane situation. Though obviously using US supplied mega bombs and other munitions.
Well first of all, a lot of that was made up, wasn’t it? Secondly after fourteen years in the Gaza concentration camp it could have been expected that something would blow up (hence Netanyahu trying to shift blame). Think of the valiant Warsaw ghetto uprising, where your Mum was. Gaza’s the same isn’t it? Or was that action OK for persecuted Jews but not OK for persecuted Muslims?
Well, IMH opinion, after a couple of millennia of being despised I would have thought that after the genocide atrocity in Germany and the subsequent sympathetic view of all the World, including turning a blind eye to the theft of Palestinian land, it would have made sense not to go and commit a genocide yourselves. All that goodwill has evaporated. And all to keep an amoral arsehole like Bibi in power 
You’ve blown it.
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I think we are approaching the current situation from the wrong angle, or with presuppositions which are inappropriate.
Israel is using the October attacks as an excuse to increase its destruction of Palestinians and colonisation of Palestine. It is doing that because it feels threatened by the rise of Islam, and the fact that it is surrounded by Islamic nations.
Hamas is supported by almost half of Palestine, and the “overwhelming majority of Palestinians oppose Hamas disarmament” (https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/overwhelming-majority-palestinians-oppose-hamas-disarmament-poll-finds; sorry it’s a few months old). Hzamas thinks Israel should not exist. Hamas is an offshoot of the Muslim Brotherhood. The Muslim Brotherhood wants the world to be Muslim (https://www.britannica.com/topic/Muslim-Brotherhood).
Against that background, Hamas decided to attack Israel in October 2023, using rockets, paragliders, attacks on civilians, and rape and sexual violence “[which was] systematic and integral to [the] … attacks and their aftermath” (Sexual violence was systematic and integral to Oct. 7 attacks and their aftermath, new report says).
Hamas cannot reasonably have expected that attack would defeat Israel militarily. If there was any reasoning behind it - I think the logical conclusion is that there was - it was to goad Israel into exactly the sort of excessive, horrific retaliation that it has been known for, for as long as I can remember.
We with our modern Western minds struggle, I think, to understand Islam and its barbarism towards people (including its own). Most know of the rewards which await the martyr (What Are the Rewards of a Martyr? - Islam Question & Answer), which must be highly attractive to someone rotting in a slum in Palestine.
In summary, I think the situation is as follows:
i. an attack perpetrated by an offshoot of an organisation which wants the world to be part of an Islamic state
ii. an attack which was doomed to fail in strict military terms
iii. an attack of such barbarity that Israel could be expected to act in with even more barbarism
iv. an Israeli response which might be calculated to raise worldwide support for Palestine and involve and encourage the likes of Iran
v. an Israeli response which might also be calculated to provide the opportunity to extend support for Islamist ideas like “globalise the Intifada”
vi. a global response among the Left and Left-ish of a visceral antipathy towards Israel.
Pick the bones out of that!
Do you listen to yourself sometimes @Porridge ?
It would be more useful if you’d respond to arguments rather than sniping.
Just a thought
Not sniping, @Porridge. I’ve remarked before on your disingenuous style of argumentation and I’d go so far as to call it dishonest. I’m not interested in debating in circles with you.
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Then don’t! I’m only interested in honest civilized discussion. If all you have is ad hominem remarks, copied from others, it really would be better if you stay silent.
No. It is doing that to expand it’s territory.
I suspect that it covertly encouraged and enabled the attack through a combination of deliberate oppression of those in Gaza, enabling a radical Hamas to take power and prevent a 2 state solution, through deliberately ignoring the warnings given about the coming attack.
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That’s what I mean
Don’t you think Hamas has been around long enough for Palestinians to know what its aims and methods are? I was surprised to see so much support for it among ordinary Palestinians.
“[A] radical Hamas [wishes] to … prevent a 2 state solution” - I think that is right.
But why should they prefer that?
You might answer your own questions.