I agree! And yes, if I had a Morgan the 5 Link rear suspension would be my first change ahead of double wishbones on the front, to give a less harsh ride.
My understanding is that such a change does not need declaration nor inspection other than the normal pump action to the shockabsorbers during a CT, where it is not necessary to physically inspect the shock absorbers if they are deemed ok. Indeed, I would not expect there to be a CT tester who would even recognise that a 5 Link frame is not standard! (Did I read somewhere that Morgan are now fitting the SSL 5 Link rear as standard now..?)
This is assuming that your car is already immatriculated here in France. I would not attempt to fit the 5 Link frame to a pre 1995 car before getting the FFVE certificate though just in case they choose to ask for photographs of the underside.
The above is my take, but I appreciate that before you shell out a few thousand, you will want cast iron assurance. So I urge you to ask your local/friendly CT tester to confirm what I say. Certainly my buddy has passed and shown interest in the Hoyle IRS for an MGB that I hadā¦
What is your model? Is it a 6? What is your aim in changing the cam and TBs? My opinion - but bear in mind that I know little of the BMW engine - is that you would/might ruin the smooth operation intended for the Morgan, especially when you already have over 300bhp, and the quite accptable 4.5s 0-100ā¦
The Hoyle IRS and front suspension upgrade is what I have my eye on for my mk1 BGT. But the cost alone for the IRS and running gear, apart from the differential, is around a monstrous Ā£3.000, or am I being unrealistic in my budget for what appears to be an upgrade that totally modernises the carās handling?
mmm. I think your Ā£3k is just the price to get it off the ground. As you say, there is a diff and then a propshaft to be made up and balanced. And after all that incidentals such as brake pipes and exhaust fabrication (routing the exhaust is particularly troublesome with the final fabrication not entirely satisfactory).
Playing around with these things is not cheap. The last B I played with ate up nigh on Ā£25k and then I sold it for half that. Yes, you are being unrealistic. I put a cost of around Ā£6k for the rear alone. If 3k is monstrous for you, I politely suggest that you stick with the standard car and enjoy what it does give.
Yes, 1 in the UK and 2 in Germany. The main thing is to connect with the inspector from the time of thinking about it, following thrught to the final acceptance.
Being honest, you dont have a cat in hells chance of getting a mx running gear shoved into an MGB carcass through the french system.
Fitted? If so a bargain. The coilovers on the Morgan were about 5k fitted and the ācassetteā they are attached to just bolted into the leaf spring brackets (see above). The matched and upgraded front end was another ā¬1,500 Iād say.
That might be a stretch
Itās a +4 Super Sport. A run of 60 cars produced in 2012 to mark sixty years since Morgan won their class at Le Mans. They are all numbered and all RHD, apart from three, two white and one RAF blue (mine) that were bought by the Italian Morgan dealer and converted to `LHD. I bought my car from him after its conversion.
They came equipped with throttle bodies, a hotter inlet cam, reworked exhaust and OMEX engine management plus an LSD. Brought the power up from around 150bhp to just over 200. More than enough in car of its weight.
The only things Iāve done to her is the suspension mods and fitted LED headlights. Clever H4 Philips X-treme Ultinon LED ones that use the existing lenses. They were new to the market when I bought them from the States but they are homologated for road use here now, and four CTs later Iāve had no issues. Same for the suspension.
Ah. I do not know why, but I had it in mind that you have a 6.
Yes, if Ford with Morgan increased the TB, then yes, a good mod as the ECU will be fine tuned as well. A common Porsche mod is to change the TBs, but many say that the change requires other work and programming and to change them on their own does not give great results,
One of the entries in my bucket list is to fit a Cosworth Duratec mated to an auto box into an Elan+2. It is not going to happen though..
I already have a good Sierra differential, but it would need a crown wheel & pinon change to reduce the final drive from the current 3,62:1.
Given the estimated cost of the Hoyle unit that you indicate, Iām having a look around for good performance and more reasonably priced alternatives. I see various 4- and 5-link & McPherson strut unit options; Iām wondering if you or anyone following this thread can comment on worthy alternatives to the Hoyle rear suspension.
The car would be mostly used for touring, but it needs to be able to handle well uneven and damaged surfaces, particularly on country road bends. The stock shocks, springs and high unsprung mass of the stock arrangement doesnāt make for reasonably good road handling. Your A55 set-up sounds interesting.
Is it incorrect to believe that the Hoyle unit doesnāt bring the carās handling up to a reasonably good standard?
I prepared a small spreadsheet of the Hoyle IRS and running gear, and you are correct in your cost estimation; I was earlier referring to the just the Hoyle kit. I wasnāt aware that the A55 formed the basis of the MGB design, apart from the engine choice. I read in the past that BMC had planned to design an engine specifically for the car, but company executives thwarted these plans, along with that of overcoming the challenges encountered in design of independent rear suspension.
To all contributors
From all the comments by contributors on this thread over the last while, there are very mixed opinions on whether my planned modified car would succeed an initial RTI inspection by DREAL. I feel that a substituted normally aspirated 1,84l MX-5 engine and a better performing and safer suspension set-up are conservative upgrades, while the absence of visual or physical changes to the outside of the car gives no cause for alarm with DREAL inspectors.
I do acknowledge that the design and fabrication of engine mounts and hollowing of the suspension cross-member (for engine lowering) needs to be well executed, materials need to be documented and a careful photo history is necessary. I have an engineering background, so I donāt envisage this being a problem. I am now considering the following.
(a) If an engineering inspection report done in the UK on work would support an RTI inspection by DREAL.
(b) If conversion to LHD would improve chances of DREAL acceptance.
(c) Any more modern features DREAL expect, not OE on my car, such as fog, reverse and hazard lights.
It would help greatly if DREAL criteria for RTI inspection were made available to the public, or if DREAL supported a customer query service for addressing the points that we have been raising in this thread.
Thanks again for all your contributions on this thread, they have been helpful.
c. The list is endless. Again, they will not look at your car as a āclassicā and make allowances. To DREAL, it is a new car asking to be put onto French roads. First you will have to get the car signed off on Directive 199937/EC, an exhaustive list of all the cars features. This alone will take many hours and several hundred ā¬. In this directive there is a section somewhere requiring a sign off on the carās road worthiness. Yes rear fog light, hazards are required together with speedometer in kph, probably twin line brake circuits and ability to meet current emmissions for which you will need to find somewhere to install catalytic converter/s, and link up the O2 sensors to an ECU - for this you might be able to use a complete Mazda system if using a 2.OL (not sure the 1.8 will meet the standards) Download the full Directive (not the UK version) and scour through it. Be prepared for a 5000ā¬ bill - if it meets all the standards. If it does not, then it is start all over again!
I really do not know why you are all sent on a hiding to maybe nothing! There are plenty of Bs for sale in France made for EU driving. Come over here buy one and then look at modifications.
I hope to bring to France a car that gladly will be eligible for registration as a voiture de collection. The car is UK registered in N. Ireland. So, I am wondering if the car would be liable for importation or VAT taxes by the Centre des Impots. This seems to depend on whether the UK is now treated by French authorities as a non-EU country, but maybe myself being an EU citizen may have some bearing on matters.
I assume that I can make a direct application to the FFVE, having cleared customs.
An interesting topic, one that is close to my heart. I have been modifying cars since the age of 16 and before coming to France I have fitted V8 engines where anaemic 4 cylinder ones used to reside. I fear that it will be an uphill struggle to get a modified vehicle of any type on the road in France. And in fact it is also becoming harder to do it in UK as well. I suggest having a browse the website of France Street Rod Association. Not specifically about what you would call āclassicā cars but exactly the same in the way the authorities are unable to think āoutside the boxā. On the FSRA site take a look at the Galeries section to see photos of heavily modified cars of all ages, several with modified frames, bodywork, brakes and suspension. And most with V8 engines fitted. The majority are on French plates. This says that there must be some way to bend, break, or comply with the rules.
I have a feeling this may be the thin end of the wedge and much worse is yet to come. A few years ago I read about the heavy lobbying in Brussels by the major car manufacturers. They are trying to bring legislation to prevent owners doing their own repairs and maintenance. The handy excuse is āsafetyā but clearly it is to fight back against the lost revenue of their own service departments. It does not bode well for dedicated enthusiasts or the independent garage trade.
It does appear evident that manufacturers are planning & designing their vehicles to be beyond service and repair by knowledgeable enthusiasts. I would also argue that the catalogue of computer monitoring systems and driving controls are eviscerating the joy and passion of vehicle ownership & driving. It is for these reasons that I prefer cars of years up to around the year 2000.
On the advice of Adam1 Iāve been researching to ascertain the emissions standard that would apply to my proposed MX-5 engine swap. All information defines this as the one applicable to the year of the vehicleās first registration, which isnāt relevant to a car attempted to be registered as an isolated car type (RTI), having undergone a more modern engine substitution. The logical determinant would be the year of the donor engine, or the years during which the engine was manufactured; but logic may not prevail in this instance. I will investigate the FSRA site, @Backagain .
Iāve learned that fog lights are not mandatory, but do need to function well on vehicles that are fitted with them. Iām inclined to fit one rear fog light anyway, for the sake of safety and possible improved inspection acceptance. I will also need to fit a reverse light to the right side, if Iām not mistaken.
Not strictly āon topicā (apologies in advance for ādriftingā) - but does anyne watch the UK tv programme (sorry again !) - āBangers & Cashā programme featuring the Matthewsons and their regular auctions ? Fascinating to hear many customers, and Derek Matthewson himself, talking with enthusiasm about the āclassicā ie older cars that are being auctioned, and the family history behind them. General enthusiasm for the older cars - without computers - and the feeling that the cars ādeserveā to be kept, restored, loved, modified if necessary - as they are part of motoring history.
Could the āmodifiedā cars mentioned above by Backagain have been modified, and approved, quite a few years ago before all the rules, regs, lobbying, etc took place ? Must be frustrating to believe that āsomeā have managed to ābeat the systemā !!!
Again: DREAL will not give a jot as to the age of an engine. You are bringing into France a car that does not have a CoC and one that FFVE will not touch. To DREAL, this is a new car to go onto the roads in France - even if a one off - and therefore it will have to conform to the standards defined at the time of testing.
Again: Why are you making this difficult for yourself? Bring in an MGB that will get through FFVE, register it and then do your engine swap. Emissions are then set, and that any newer engine such as a Mazda will not be an issue (with said engine in good condition of course.)
Fog lights might not be mandatory on the older car that will be allowed in through FFVE, but your modified car will very much need fog lights, and any other accessories deemed necessary on todayās carā¦
Thanks again Adam1. I understand that purchasing a good car in France would be a simpler route; however, I have a car in my garage (outside of France) that would probably be worth little in its current state of partial dismantlement, despite the comprehensive body repairs done. In addition, moving an engine and gearbox to France as donor parts for a French registered car modification would be difficult. But, I will consider your advice on purchasing a car when in France.
Can you suggest a reputable source for finding quality classic vehicles in France? I have found one good European site, but vehicles there do appear to be selling for highly inflated prices.
