Hello, I am an Irish citizen and Irish passport holder.
I have been offered the opportunity of an extended holiday in France staying with friends that own a property there.
By extended, I am thinking of 6 months.
I have been researching online but keep coming up with conflicting answers… some sites advise that even being an EU citizen, I can only stay in France for a max of 90 days in any 180. Other sites seem to imply that there is no limit as long as I am not being a burden on the country I am visiting.
Does anybody know the “definitive” answer please?
Many thanks Laura
As an Irish citizen/passport holder you can spend as much time as you like in the EU
1 Like
You can apply for a visa, but it’s not necessary for a European… (do make sure you’ve got your health covered by Insurance or whatever).
You can stay in France as long as you like but after 180 days you will be on the French tax authorities radar ie your income should be taxed here not in Ireland
Thanks everybody for your replies, very helpful 
The map that I saw (can’t remember where) when Croatia joined indicated that Ireland wasn’t in the Schengen area - does that make a difference?
I don’t think that’s quite correct. French criteria for fiscal residence are basically about where you have your permanent home, where your income and financial assets are, etc. The 180 day rule is not really part of the French criteria except perhaps as a tie breaker when a person has a foot in two countries.
2 Likes
Not so sure, @Sandcastle. @stevefrance64 seems to be correct.
-
If you have dual permanent residence, the center of your financial and personal interests is in France.
-
If your center of interests cannot be determined, your primary place of residence is in France (residence in France for more than 183 days in the same year).
Seems to me, but I expect @JaneJones will know better, that wherever you live and work normally, if you are residing in France for more than 183 days - you are eligible for French tax.
The only thing is, with an Irish passport being a member of EU, the OP wouldn’t have any surveillance regarding how much time they were residing in France.
Best to find out correctly what the law is and then abide by it, in my opinion.
1 Like
with so much chit-chat… this way and that…
@LauraW … I, personally, would apply for a holiday visa (yes, even though an EU citizen possibly/probably doesn’t need one).
That way one’s holiday can be enjoyed without worrying that someone in authority will decide to flex their muscles…
If you apply and are told officially that you don’t need the visa to spend 6 months on holiday… so much the better… 
EDIT: Having read and re-read the French Govt guidelines… I must ask the question: Do you have a normal Residence/Home outside of France and would only be visiting France and holidaying at a friend’s home?
If the Answer is YES… I really cannot see that 6 months of holiday makes you suddenly Tax Resident in France… although if you were earning in France during the holiday, that money would (I believe) be liable to French Tax…
It seems to me that if a person has a home in one country and they are a national of that country and have a history of permanent residence there, and they are in France as a visitor on an extended visit, staying at a friend’s house, then they do not really have “dual permanent residence”. and it is not difficult to determine their centre of interests. I cannot see France trying to claim that the centre of their financial and personal interests has moved to France if their assets, their permanent home, their possessions, their family and their social life are all back home in Ireland. (Of course this is an assumption, Laura did not go into detail about her circumstances, but she did mention that it is a friend not a relative who will be hosting her in France and I doubt that she is going to bring all her worldly goods with her.)
I am not familiar with the Irish tax treaty but I doubt that the Irish tax office would hand you over to France on the basis of a one off temporary visit. Certainly the UK would not class you as a “leaver” in those circumstances. By the same token, if a French person spent over 6 months visiting another country but maintained their foyer in France, France would continue to regard them as resident in France.
In theory an EU citizen should not stay in another EU state for more than 3 months but France has never policed this, it has chosen not to implement the registration system that most EU countries have and seems to tolerate EU citizens staying in France for as long as they like. I am sure that pre Brexit, many many retired Brits spent more than 6 months a year in France without any kind of visa and continued paying tax on their pensions etc to the UK. That is the reality, although the theory may be different.
I think we will have to agree to differ.
Hi Stella,
I will not be working/earning while in France (I’m retired and past working age) and have no intention of staying past 6 months (maybe not even the full 6 ). I have my own property (home) with no intention of emigrating.
I keep hearing about the 90 days in 180 rule still being applicable to my situation but can’t find it documented on any official site!!
Thanks again Laura
No it is not applicable to you. The 90 in 180 days only applies to non EU citizens.
As an EU citizen you have freedom of movement which means you can spend (officially) up to 3 months in any one EU country and as long as you like in Schengen. You will find chapter and verse on EU citizens and their right to free movement in the EU directive on freedom of movement. Summarized here:
https://eur-lex.europa.eu/EN/legal-content/summary/eu-freedom-of-movement-and-residence.html
So that implies that I shouldn’t be spending 5/6 months on holiday in France ??? - without a visa
So, after digesting the document in the link https://eur-lex.europa.eu/EN/legal-content/summary/eu-freedom-of-movement-and-residence.html:
EU citizens with a valid identity card or passport may: -
live in another Member State for longer than 3 months subject to certain conditions, depending on their status in the host country:
students and other people not working for payment, such as those in retirement, must have sufficient resources for themselves and their family, so as not to be a burden on the host country’s social assistance system, and comprehensive sickness insurance cover;
I am in retirement, have sufficient funds and will have sickness insurance so I should be OK ??
1 Like
I do not see a problem. You have freedom of movement, France does not require visitors to register their presence, and I cannot see why you would have any hassle at all with any French authority during your visit. Nor can I imagine that you will be expected to pay your 2023 taxes in France. By the time France’s 2023 tax exercise comes around, in April 2024, you will probably be back home in Ireland.
But this is just my opinion based on official sources that I have read and on what I have seen happen in practice, however others appear to think different and I accept that they may be right and I may be wrong.
I don’t know where you’re “hearing” it… perhaps you can tell us…
but from everything I’ve checked… 90/180 only applies to visitors who are nationals of a country which is NOT part of EU… Ireland is still part of EU so YOU are OK…
France lays it on the line, it’s very clear who does and who does NOT need a visa etc to stay more than 90 days…
Yep…
“To stay legally in France for more than 3 months, an adult foreigner must blah blah blah, UNLESS he is a citizen of an EU country: EEA : European Economic Area or switzerland.”
As an Irish Citizen… (citizen of an EU country etc) please come and have a lovely holiday in France… no need for Visa or whatever…
alright… just in case I’m having a senior moment… you are talking about Southern Ireland aren’t you ??? (apologies, but I didn’t do geography as school)
Hello Stella,
“I don’t know where you’re “hearing” it… perhaps you can tell us…”
I am hearing it from sources such as the one posted in the link above - I have also come across the same information in other, similar EU documents:
[Directive 2004/38/EC on the right of EU citizens and their families to move and reside freely within the EU]
EU citizens with a valid identity card or passport may: (that’s me)
- enter another EU Member State without requiring an exit or entry visa. Family members who are not nationals of a Member State do not require either an exit or entry visa if they possess a valid residence card;
-
live in another Member State for up to 3 months without any conditions or formalities;
The 3 month bit pops up over and over again
I reside in Eire, the south but that doesn’t matter as northerners are also entitled to an Irish passport
But unless they are using it they will count as non EU so it does matter.
The only conditions that apply to you as a retired EU citizen are to have health insurance and sufficient funds to support yourself. There are no formalities, beyond potentially (and unlikely) being asked to show evidence of funds at the border.
1 Like