So they accepted to close my account and they still want a meeting to show them my taxpaper....
They claim that this MONTH they have issued this formalities with all PROFESSIONAL account holders, which to me is very suspicious because if this was the true as they claim, they would have not stressed since a while to get me in an appointment.
Lies, Lies and lies ;)
Ivan, could it be because of you transferring money from your professional account to your personal that they want to see you? I really can't see the problem. Banks are within their rights to ask for tax declarations to prevent money laundering etc. I've shown mine on several occasions for mortgages and for opening an account. Why not just do as they ask? You seem to be stressing about a small deal to be honest.
It IS their business and as a foreigner they are entitled to ask for that information. By refusing to comply it could cause you difficulties in the future. The banking world is getting tougher everywhere with expats even in the UK. I've just had to go through proof of identity hoops to get an endowment paid to me that I've been paying into for 25 years with the Halifax.
I agree 100 per cent with Chris B. I can never understand why people get so aeriated when banks carry out simple 'Know Your Customer' type checks. Why be so secretive about your tax statement? What's so special about yours, it's just a piece of paper with figures on it, everybody's got one or should have. It's very easy to comply, but you create no end of hassle for yourself if you get on your high horse about it.
Having a good relationship with your bank is important, there needs to be trust in both directions and it sounds as if you don't trust them and they will not trust you either if you don't comply with the rules, so there is trust in neither direction. So it sounds like you do need to close the account. But any bank is likely to make the same request. Transparency is expected, these days.
Hello, i did participate somewhat in this debate, basically advising that banks should mind their own business, as i've never been asked any information, as an Auto entrepreneur since 2010. I have just found, as Josephine puts it, that it is quite the norm nowadays and that the State even expects it from them. More info here:
Good find Corinne. However, I doubt the OP will give it a moment's regard...
Personally, I'd feel safer with a bank that does rigorous checks on its clients than one which doesnt. I really don't see what point people are trying to make when they tell banks that they won't comply. It will only cause them problems in the future. You may well find it very difficult to open an account elsewhere if your bank decides to close your account because you won't comply with their rules. It will go on record.
Thank you Graham, it is of course up to them then and in case it is a language problem, they can use Google translate to get the gist of it, can't they? ;-)
I can't agree Josephine. The bank has no right to know anything about one's private financial affaires except those that one transacts through that Bank. The days of a personal relationship with one's bank manager have gone. I use three banks, HSBC in France, HSBC in the UK and Bank of Ireland in Dublin. I understand that they must all make adequate tests to prevent money laundering and they must report interest, and I guess capital gains, that I receive from them to the relevent tax authorities. They will have records of transactions they may also have to divulge to the tax authorities. I'm fine with all of that but otherwise my financial affairs are my own business. Before I would comply with a request for futher imformation I would require a full explanation as to why they need it, how long they will keep it and what they will do with it. There are comprehensive and onerous laws on data privacy, a responsible organisation only requests and stores what they really need.
In my opinion, there should be transparency and openness in one's tax affairs but not with banks, the are only commercial organisations who's role is to serve their clients. In my experience traditional French banks, such as Société Générale, sometimes didn't understand that. They think the client is there to serve them :-)
The days of a personal relationship with one's bank manager have gone.
Not at all, John, when talking about professional accounts that's normal! I have a one to one relationship with my bank and can walk in whenever I like without an appointment and wonder upstairs to see my conseileur pro or his assistant if he's out. As a buraliste, I'm in the bank daily and am known to pretty much every member of staff - all of whom are very helpful, only because they know who I am/my business etc....!
I still don't get why it bothers you to provide information to your bank. They're bound by confidentiality, and in any case they're not interested in you as a person, they're not going to make value judgements on your success or failure as an alpha male and breadwinner. The person who check the documents doesn't know you from Adam and doesn't want to. All you are to him is an account number/a potential risk/a potential money launderer; in short, a tiny part of his job if you submit the documents he asks for and they all check out, and an inconvenience if you don't. I can understand not wanting social acquaintances to know your financial business - but institutions? why does it matter, if you have nothing to hide? Obviously this mindset is deeply entrenched in some people, and I wish somebody would explain why, because I don't understand it. I've never come across it in nationalities other than British, and I think I can even say English. Or maybe it's a generation thing.
Sure Andrew, but that is a commercial relationship beneficial to the Bank. Banks are more and more just a utility and like other utilities they are trying to drive down costs. They know the web is the future of personal banking. I have a "personal" relationship,with with HSBC and BoI, personal advisors etc., and HSBC (unlike BoI) have saved me a lot of money and made me modest money with their advice. But it's a commercial relationship, not like the the old Bank Manger who was your "friend" and along with the parish priest, the doctor and the mayor ran the show ;-)
Firstly I'm not "British". Secondly, I don't care what some bank clerk or even bank CEO thinks of me. I'm comfortably off, why should they know that? They will only try and sell me some service or other that I don't want or need. Thirdly, anybody who trusts a bank's integrity is naive. Banks are the last prople to trust with your your data. Banks almost bankrupted the EU in 2008 and they were bailed out with tax payer money. Are they any better today Josephine? I think not. Veolia gives me water, EDF gives me power, HSBC gives me banking (and is paid for same). Banking is just another utility and deserves the same respect any other utility.
You still haven't given a reason that makes sense to me. I know banks have very little integrity but they are regulated and I can't believe that they will sell personal data. As for using it themselves, it's easy enough to say no if they offer you something you don't want. And I don't see how having or not having a copy of clients' tax returns on file will either cause them to, or stop them from bankrupting the EU in future, there is no connection. Yes banking is in a way another utility but they all have their own particular obligations - the bank isn't legally obliged to come and read your meter once a year, EDF isn't legally obliged to comply with international money laundering regulations.
Sorry Josephine, I should have been clearer. In these days of phishing, security breeches, cold calling, etc. in my opinion one should divulge as little personal information as possible. I'm sure banks don't sell information but they will use it for their own commercial advantage. I don't want unsolicted approaches from my banks, I don't want to have to say no.
My comment about bankrupting Europe was an attempt to show that the concept of banks being trustworthy, solid and prudent is a myth. They are as venal as any other for profit organisation (those folk with a leaning to the Left might argue more so). They are as likely to abuse data under their control as any other organisation and they are as vunerable to data breaches as any other organisation. Therefore I only trust them as much as I would any other organisation. I don't put banks in a special category, as you seem to.
I've already stated that I want them comply with all regulatory requirements, and that I am happy to supply personal information required to do that, but no more. For example, I have no requirement to borrow from my banks so why sould I reveal my income? It's none of their business. As I wouldn't dream of giving Veolia a copy of my tax affairs, why would I give it to a bank?
Bottom line for me I guess is, I don't trust banks - I just use them. In the future, as the banks well know, they could very easily be disintermediated by the likes of Paypal, Apple pay, etc. then I and millions of others might not use them any more. Traditional banking is tarnished and struggling to show clients any added value. Wait until they start offering negative interest on savings :-)
"For example, I have no requirement to borrow from my banks so why sould I reveal my income? It's none of their business."
It's their business because the government has made it their business. I'm sure they'd prefer not to have to deal with all this and not have to pay staff for all the time they spend on it. Banks have a lot of reporting obligations these days, there is a whole aspect of activity in connection with the customer accounts and the money that they handle that is complementary to their customer-facing activities - the bank-state connection - so saying that they're just like Veolia is stretching things a little I feel.
I don't like or trust banks either when it comes to ethical issues (believe me, some of the internal documents I see as a translator are truly shocking) but I appreciate that banks also act as an instrument of the state and international watchdog committees, so I try not to let the fact that I find many aspects of the banking system despicable, predispose me to be obstructive to departments that have nothing to do with trading and exploiting but are merely trying to fulfil their administrative obligations.
That's certainly not true for private clients Josephine. I doubt it's true for AE's either because I was an AE and HSBC had no interest. I can't comment on other or newer forms of commercial accounts but as a private individual none of my banks know my income. That's because they have no reporting requirement other than the income generated for me, by them. For example, interest and even that isn't exhaustive. Only my accountant and the French, and Irish tax authorities know anything about my income and only the French authorities have the full picture.
Since 2008 the vast weight of regulatory activity has been targeted at getting the banks back under control, not their long suffering clients :-) and rightly so.
Trust me, the future of banking is more like Veolia than the traditional banking model. The smarter banks know this which is why they are forcing clients to the web. Apple knows this which is why they introduced Applepay. Elon Musk has always known this which is why he's a billionaire from setting up PayPal. Anyone in a bank that tries to throw their weight around with clients in the "traditional" manner deserves to be told to shove it IMO :-)
Banks have all kind of reporting requirements John - on individual transactions such as large cash deposits and withdrawals, on unusual account activity, on certain patterns of activity, etc. You don't see it happen, but it happens, every time a transaction that ticks certain boxes takes place it is flagged up and it goes on record. Even PayPal follow the rules strictly, I seem to recall my PayPal account being frozen once while I provided extra information that they required because my transactions through it had exceeded a certain figure. But I'm not going to argue this, I've said how I see things and explained why and I have nothing more to add, and I'll keep doing it my way because it works for me, and you'll keep doing it your way if it works for you.
Thanks Josephene but I know all that. In a past life I was the IBM Executive responsible for a few large organisations (over a thousand people) which, amongst other things, ran the IT infrastructure for many client companies, including financial institutions such as Royale and Sun Alliance and Bank of Ireland.
So, for the avoidance of doubt, any of my personal information that banks require for regulatory reasons I am happy to provide. If my bank requests information (which none of them ever have, even on multiple transactions of 200K and more) that I consider intrusive then I would want them (as I said in my original post) to explain why they need it and how they will use it. That's it, done. Government rules, my rules but not bank makey uppy rules or I take my business elsewhere. The days of bank makey uppy rules are over as are the days of having to suck up to bank mangers. It's a competitive world out there for them :-)
A pal of mine received the attached recently. I have to say the information requested looked more like a market segmentation exercise under the guise of money laundering prevention to me. I think this information will just be used for target selling. For example, "Date you finish your studies"..... why else would they want to know that? ;-) There is no way I would inform them about assets held in other financial institutions, who obviously keep their own regulatory compliant records. Something rotten in the State of BNP?