It's Six o'clock - switch off your phones

General Discussion
41

Peter,

for me just a jigsaw I will never, ever finish, just hope on occasions to get at least some of the pieces to fit and reveal something. BUT History is always written by someone with an attitude, or axe to grind and it is often frustrating to read much of it. Memoirs are the worst!

Very interestingly and something I hadn't thought about at all, was an article I read about - 'are you reading the original or the Translator's version of the original?' Further muddying of the waters?

Even sometimes technical reference points disagree. Currently doing a series of WW1 aircraft paintings for non-technical people, but have felt some technical info. would be supportive, but then find often widely, even wildly different information from apparently reputed sites.

THAT makes my brain hurt.

42

My brain has hurt since somebody put a book in my hands, roughly 1951 I believe, the only way to stop it hurting will be my wooden suit come the day.

43

Trouble is, there's too much to learn !!

My brain hurts...

44

It is intriguing but who exactly decides these things apply? In the UK the Monarch as I understand it does hav the ultimate and if necessary independent power to dissolve Parliament, but here does the incumbent President just fall on his sword, (Happy thought?).

Re timing, yep same problem with me and colleagues and friends in Australia.

45

I think I am an exception as I never find History boring. My bookcases are laden with the subjects, and to me trying to find 'cause and effect' is ever fascinating.

Probably the lack of a formal education has something to do with it? I aways feel I have something to learn, although 'why bother' does enter the quation as the years pass.

46

It seems to be the sex-fashion today - Hollande also seems to exude something that gets him into the cot with attractive ladies - and even before he was President. Strauss-Kahn's wife was also attractive.

With the exception of the latest actress, about whom I know nothing and happy to remain in ignorance, the other three main 'players' in their lives also seem to be ladies of intelligence and not just bimbos.

Maybe we should all be brushing up on our Political Discourse to get Sexual Intercourse? Whatever the latter is, although I seem to recall something about it............but what was it now......................?

47

DSK - he's short, fat and ugly so what do women see in him ???

Jammy git !

He would be a popular choice for the PS leadership but so would Ghengis Khan compared to the present clown !!!

48

DSK? Well they both have the balls for it obviously ;-)

49

Strauss-Kahn V. Sarko?

50

That means the food banks will become national news here too in time. How the mighty European empires are crumbling around us...

51

Peter thanks for that - yes that was the word I was looking for. Another of the senior moments mental blocks?

It is the one thing on the TV 'crawls' I need to understand the French news, deaf old bugger, and I drive SWMBO nuts by always having to ask who the hell they are? I rather suspect it's because she doesn't know either!

Plus I do get lost with the increasing use of the 'argo' in this respect.

52

Yes, the notion of the DPE partly being carried out by headmasters with canes springs to mind. History, maybe boring but very necessary for understanding the present...

53

You are correct of course Brian. Times are really hard in France tho' many of us are shielded from this poverty either by our unwillingness to open our eyes or due to living in a very confined world within our four walls. The gap between rich and poor is widening and food banks DO exist, well they do in the Haute Vienne anyway.

54

The collapse of the French Fourth Republic was brought about by the Algerian crisis of 1958. De Gaulle came out of political retirement to assume office because of the inability of the French parliament to choose a government. Then there was widespread popular protest, so the last parliament of the Fourth Republic voted for their own dissolution and convened a constitutional convention that gave them the French Fifth Republic. Algeria was 'allowed' to go in 1962 and there have been times like the repercussions of the Indochina debacle that might have led to a Sixth Republic. The chances of a new one at present are very, very slim, the actual crisis needs to be on the scale of a war in which France gets a good hiding or total economic collapse before they would dissolve the present one.

PS. I get up at 0530 to work, which is what I am supposed to be doing now. Being in touch with people having lunch just about over means that starting work after 0900, for instance, is when they are already contemplating going home in a couple of hours. As you well know, that does not square.

55

Carol, that's fine as long as they don't want to change the laws of the land to an alien religion. For people to live their own way, eat their own foods etc is logical and often beneficial to the indigenous population - obvious examples being Food, Indian, Chinese, Vietnamese etc.

My wife was born in Morocco, but is a Pied Noir - French family, so we eat quite a bit of Arabic food - cous-cous etc., and thoroughly enjoy it. Nothing wrong with many Algerian wines either.

This level of integration or addition is very much a good thing - and I suggest an ideal way into understanding at least a little of another culture from a distance. Trying to impose another religion is different though and resented and always will be as History has proven over and over again. Even those who are not religious don't want to be engulfed in overflow laws and values of other cultures.

I clearly remember dinner parties in Australia (the land of immigrants) where we would have people from six or seven different cultural backgrounds which were great together, although I confess we didn't see many black people in those days, with the White Australia Policy, and any Moslems were pretty anonymous as I can't recall any of them either.

Despite these apparent shortcomings Australia had the benefits of no fewer than 160 National groups if I remember correctly and it worked. However, you are correct in saying that they didn't lose their identities, but remained fully aware and grateful of the new life Australia offered, and accepted they were 'New Australians' first and foremost - else why did they go there?

Those who didn't accept this were doomed to be unhappy and eventually packed up and left, none the worse for the experience I suspect, and certainly not missed by those they left behind.

Of course like my wife, quite a few were in those days 'ten quid tourists'. Those who came, saw, and left after the required two years. Nobody saw anything wrong in that - it was 'product sampling', and those who liked stayed to consume. To me this attitude should still apply. Those who come and decide to stay must stay under the terms of the indigenous country, and if they won't or don't want to, then leave.

The creation of the tensions we see currently are because some don't accept this. Yes, I do understand it is largely second-generations who are the biggest element in this across Europe, but why did this never happen in Australia? Although I note that it is starting there as well now with the self-same religious grouping. Can't be accidental can it?

Nationalism is on the rise again, and I am sorry but I remain to be convinced that this is ever a good thing - even if it is probably to ingrained in our tribalism to disappear.

56

Is 'Acronym' the word you are looking for Norman ?

The french arre the kings of the acronym, the list really is endless CPAM etc tho' one which intrigues me is the SPANC (le Service Public d'Assainissement Non Collectif).

he Republic system in France follows the type or regime of leadership present in the country at any given time. Difficult to explain but a new republic is needed to be formed in the eyes of the french when a significant change in leadership style takes place so, going from the monarchy to a more democratic system after the revolutionto created the 1st republic and the 2nd created 50 years later after a second mini revolution where the style of elected representation changed significantly up to the 4th following the Vichy regime up to the present when the system of forming an elected assembly changed yet again. What a boring subject....

57

Interesting point Peter. France has flat-lined a while ago and it looks like upward rather than plunge is beginning to emerge. Economically I was thinking 'Oh, oh why did we choose France?' until a couple of months ago. The municipal elections have not even forced a bump but there was an upward blip as soon as Valls' appointment was announced that has continued and has a slight upward movement as his cabinet begins to work. It is also a cabinet that is unlikely to do Hollande's bidding that was almost certainly foisted on him and will draw attention away from the president, almost unprecedented in French political history, and set the country up for an almost predictable Valls v. Sarko as you also suggest.

58

Well, as a youngster in my mid-60s, I can only agree with your students albeit it number 1 seems to have declined a lot (sad to say) over recent years, number 2 is folk history anyway, 3. pub grub lost out to the bistros in the 1980s but has retained an unjustified reputation unless hamburgers or chicken, either with chips, is worth rating (OK everybody, I know there are exceptions so bring them on...), 4 really is history now, 5 has seen even London buses become the exception rather than the rule since corporate advertising all over them does not accommodate it and telephone boxes are now museum pieces. Otherwise, the heartland of global industry and invention is no longer and it would be hard for any student to know other than the world they see around them. As I know from students myself.

We all see certain things as we wish to. The UK has been in decline since WW2, what we called developing countries until recently are overtaking the UK by leaps and bounds, France, Germany and so on as well. Even the much lauded USA is begin to tilt downward. Glossed over visions of an imagined, unchanging world one grew up in are unfortunately not the real picture. To some extent it taints my vision too, but work has seen me in Ethiopia (as a good example) when all we had was pictures of starving children with swollen bellies. Now the country is gradually become a wealthy, dynamic 'African lion' and whilst many people are still poor and hungry the trend is reversing. A considerable list of formerly developing countries are similarly on the economic march and our own version of the Roman Empire is on the way out. Here in Europe it is reversing too, people are becoming poor and hungry as the several hundred food banks throughout the UK bear witness alone. It is not going to happen in most of our lifetimes, so nobody needs fear too much, but metaphorically the people governing us at present are doing a Nero fiddling act whilst economists tell them 'Rome is burning'.

We are who we are and, as you say Norman, carry our perceptions. The real picture is too often too unpalatable so we prefer not to see it. We build little paradises and surround ourselves with them. In truth that is fine but it might help if we all occasionally lowered the drawbridge and cast a glimpse outside.

59

Agree completely Norman, I was amazed Valls accepted the job ! This regime will plunge deeper in the opinion polls so why not keep the head down and get the bad bits out of the way before making the big entrance a couple of years down the line when he could easily contest the party leadership against a crippled Hollande in readiness for the next Presidential elections. Valls v Sarko for the big job would be an interesting confrontation...

The only thing that could save Hollande wihin his party will be the expected upturn in growth etc in the next 12 - 18 monhs. France is about 18 months behind the uk with regards to financial trends etc so unemployment should begin to fall and growth increase which will bring the rise in house prices etc which will in turn, increase confidence in the economy.

60

Brian Good Morning, nice to see you up and about bright and breezy.

You could be correct, and inevitably reminded me of the rather confused evening watching the result of the Municipal Elections coming in on Channel 2. Most of my time was spent saying 'who are DVD or a dozen of other initials popping up - Right-Wing? Left Wing?, Centrist? Extra-Loonies? WHO were they?' There was even the problem of the colours used for the candidates pictures as some apparent right-wing parties were shown in red and vice-versa. My French wife didn't have too much idea either.

The political and even social scales here are very hard to understand, and as I write I am trying think of the word that covers the use of letters for organisations and so-forth, but I am sure you can enlighten me - or it will annoy me for the rest of the day!

Another thing that bothers me, and although I have tried looking it up I can't find the answer - just when and under what circumstances does another Republique get proclaimed? What is the process? The creation of a new one (the 5th) after the War makes sense, but what else?

Anybody?