It's time to stop Israel, by any reasonable means

A terrible interview with the the acting director of al-Awda hospital.

Another dreadful interview on PM, starts at 35:50.

At least one Israeli, and one who served four Israeli prime ministers and was deputy head of the country’s National Security Council, is calling this out.

Well, at least that seems to have been pulled off as well as could be expected. Blinken, who looks shattered these days, will be very relieved.

Maybe not…

Two soldiers killed in Israeli airstrikes on Iran

“Israel’s early morning air attack on Iran was more than a military achievement for Tel Aviv, it was a diplomatic success for Washington" :+1: Poor Blinken delivered, at last.

Hopefully that’s it.

Israel’s Diaspora Affairs Minister Chikli Says Le Pen as French President ‘Excellent for Israel’

The far-right National Rally leader is unconditionally opposed by French Jewish groups for her party’s historic antisemitism. Israel’s diaspora affairs minister, however, is ‘impressed’ by her positions, adding that Netanyahu is seemingly ‘of the same opinion’

Haaretz

Jul 1, 2024

Diaspora Affairs Minister Amichai Chikli in the Knesset, last week.Credit: Naama Grynbaum

Israel’s diaspora affairs minister Amichai Chikli told Kan radio on Monday that it would be “excellent for Israel” if Marine Le Pen were the president of France, given her “firm stance” against Hamas, the International Criminal Court, and antisemitism. French Jewish groups, however, are unconditionally opposed to Le Pen’s party.

The minister, whose portfolio includes combating antisemitism worldwide, noted that Le Pen was “the prominent leader who marched with the Jewish community in the march against antisemitism, that Macron chose not to attend.”

He also said that he was impressed by "her firm stance against Hamas and in favor of Israel’s right to eradicate Hamas, as well as her support for Israel on the ICC issue."

“It would be excellent for Israel if [Marine Le Pen] were the president of France, ten exclamation points. In my opinion, it would be good for the State of Israel,” Chikli told Kan. When asked if Israel’s prime minister shared his position, Chikli replied, “It seems [Netanyahu and I] are of the same opinion. It’s not a personal matter,” adding that support for Le Pen is based on her positions on Hamas, the ICC, and “the Jewish community’s fight against antisemitism.”

Chikli described meeting Le Pen, the former president of the French far-right National Rally party, at a mass rally for Spain’s far-right Vox party in Madrid in May. During the conference, which Chikli called “very pro-Israel,” he said he spoke with Le Pen, and “was very impressed by some of the things she did.”

Chikli was the keynote speaker at the conference, and sat front row between Vox leader Santiago Abascal and France’s Le Pen. He told the audience of the threat posed to Europe by what he calls its “reckless immigration policies,” and the “ghettos full of Islamic immigrants that often become hotbeds for religious fanaticism.”

Last week, Chikli publicly praised a speech given by Jordan Bardella, the president of National Rally and a protégé of Le Pen, in which he declared a two-state solution “obsolete” in light of Hamas’ October 7 attacks. This move constituted a significant break in Israel’s long-standing boycott of the National Rally party and its earlier incarnation, the National Front.

Bardella had said that despite France’s support for the two-state solution over the years, “this position has become obsolete in light of Hamas’ atrocities on October 7.” He also declared that “For lots of French Jews, the National Rally is a shield against Islamist ideology.”

Le Pen’s party won the first round of France’s parliamentary election on Sunday, exit polls showed, though the final results will become clearer in the following days. France’s official Jewish representative body, CRIF, and many other Jewish groups are unconditionally opposed to Le Pen and any contact with her party.

For years, Israel’s ministers and official representatives abroad have been instructed to avoid any meetings with members of the party, both because of its far-right nature, its history of antisemitism and Holocaust denial, and out of coordination and solidarity with the French Jewish community.

Moving this to politics.

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How can Israelis live with themselves?
What would their parents and grandparents think, remembering the pictures coming out of Belson and Auschwitz 80 years ago?

The evil gang in Jerusalem, no less evil than the one in Berlin all those years ago, ignores the emaciated ‘lucky’ ones struggling to survive their liberation to produce their equal, not yet in numbers but not for lack of effort, dead and dying in Gaza.

Yes dying. Not content with blowing the arms and legs off children, we now learn that more than 50 little ones have slowly starved to death. Who would have thought that the mangled bodies were the lucky ones, they went quickly.

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The situation is catastrophic. Would you not suggest David, that a smart move would be to release all civilian hostages. That would leave the other side no moral ground to stand on.

They haven’t been on moral ground for most of the war. Could you imagine it making any difference, when the object was plainly not to bring them home, else Israel would not have broken the ceasefire which WAS resulting in the release of hostages.

But yes, I’d love to see the Israeli hostages returned, and also all the hostages Israel holds in it’s prisons.

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Humoriste francaise now losing work contracts in France for her position agaisnt the war in Gaza. So she created a sketch.

Saved me the task of a reply, I agree with every single word of that, couldn’t have put it better myself.

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Well, according to my logic, I think it has been proven beyond any reason reasonable doubt that taking hostages does not work so why waste resources keeping hold of them? On the other hand, releasing hostages immediately and unconditionally MAY just gain enough external support to help that cause.

There is no benefit from holding on to hostages. There is a one in a million chance some benifit may be gained from their release. However, there is no logic in war.

The reason they have not been released is because Israel broke the cease fire and started killing kids again. Although not sure that releasing them would be any advantage to Hamas, Israel has already stated that their aim is to annihilate Hamas, I am pretty sure that the bombing and blockading would continue and even increase once they have those people back.

Indeed, releasing the hostages held by Hamas would have only a slight hope of gaining any extra support.

The downside of not releasing them however is significant. The hostages have to be kept hidden and continually on the move. Guards need to be assigned to look after them. They (presumably) have to be fed and watered with resources that could better be used by those currently in dire need. The presence of hostages attracts the attention of the other side who are intent on freeing them and innocent civilians would risk being collateral damage during any recue attempt.

It seems like a no brainer to my simple mind.

Do you not think that, knowing there were no hostages left to be accidentally killed, the Israelis will really go mad to fulfill their stated ambition to erase all traces of Hamas from the earth?

But again the reason they have not been released is because Israel jumped the gun and re-started the war before they were due for release.

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I think you are right. I also think that the government don’t actually care a bit about the hostages but are keen to appear to, so the hostages are really the only thing keeping the Gaza Palestinians from complete annihilation. Netanyahu Smotrich & co. are as bad as any imaginable 20th century political figures when it comes to crimes against humanity and specifically genocide.

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I agree with both @David_Spardo and @vero. The promoters of the current conflict represent the lowest form of life.

My point was only about the holding of civilian hostages.

Either one believes they are Ineffective as human shields as seems to be the case so far. If so, they might just as well be released.

Or one believe they are effective as human shields or they serve some other purpose such as negotiating pawns in which case the taking of civilian hostages is being condoned.

I’m sure they are seen as negotiating chips, and without them Hamas would not have obtained release for the prisoners and hostages held by Israel.

It would also be a brave man to give up the one thing left of value to the Israelis at this stage too. There would then be absolutely nothing stopping Netanyahu from ordering complete devastation of Gaza in the name of destroying Hamas, but in reality to expand Israel further. I’m not completely certain he would do it, but it seems very likely. And these reasons are why Hamas and other similar terrorist organisations will take hostages, because gives them influence with an utterly strong enemy that they could never have with force of arms.

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