Jo Johnson resigns - Is this the beginning of the end for Brexit?

It is but it shies away from talking about what happens after the transition period (assuming that “the deal” goes through)

Well, your guess will be as good as mine in that respect :rofl:

This is an interesting thesis, and one that I keep hearing time after time: “…and who live in France, what is your French like? How well integrated into our culture are you?” It is based on an assumption which, if not false, is at least dubitable, because it conflates ‘cultural integration’ and ability. I am not sure what ‘cultural integration’ means, in fact; if it ONLY means mastering language X, then that arguably doesn’t say much about the culture. Similarly, it is also based upon another problematic assumption, and that is that France (in this case) is monocultural, and that is a much easier shibboleth to argue against: like any nation state, France is the site of a multiplicity of sub-cultures with various patterns of characteristics, such as as ethnicity, linguistic heritage, social class, occupation (to name but a few broad ones), or even ‘sub’-cultures such as ‘left’, ‘right’, ‘neo-fascist’, ‘libertarian’, and a long list of etceteras. So, I wonder the following: is the demand to, or claim that one has, ‘integrated’ into a ‘culture’ merely a piece of rhetorical chicanery? I suspect it is. It is used by immigrants (‘ex-pats’) as a species of oneupmanship over other immigrants, it is worn like a badge of pride. It is used by a certain type of French person for different reasons. Do I speak French? Yes, very well, although my non-productive comprehension is much, much better. Does this mean I am ‘integrated’ into ‘our culture’? Well, if culture is ONLY the French language, then yes. But the question then remains, WHICH culture? The culture of the chasse? The culture of the yellow jackets? The culture of the soi-disant left-bank intellectuals? The culture of the rugby fraternity? If, as I say, it is none of these things, then the other conclusion holds, that the ONLY thing that culture is is language, and thus I am left thinking ‘what a poor culture’.

Indeed, though the arrangements are set out clearly enough in the withdrawal agreement.

So, given that significant change to the agreement seems unlikely, whatever the machinations of Leadsom and Co. crystal ball gazing seems limited to:

  • will there be a vote of confidence? I’m pinning my flag on “no” for this one.
  • will she win? Yes, I reckon she would.
  • will the deal pass parliament? Don’t think so in its current form, too many dissenters and unlikely to be significant Labour or Lib-Dem support.
  • will there be an early general election or further referendum? Who knows? Difficult to see. Always in motion is the future…

"This is an interesting thesis, and one that I keep hearing time after time: “…and who live in France, what is your French like? How well integrated into our culture are you?” "

Hardly a thesis, it is a question.

What I mean by being integrated into our culture is understanding what is implicit, what our various differing frames of reference are - everyone is multidialectal and multireferential in their own language as it is: transferring those skills into another cultural and linguistic environment and navigating socially, being aware of our varying cultural tenets and assumptions, avoiding local solecisms and shibboleths is probably what I mean by integrating.
I find it a particularly interesting topic because I have had to switch codes (including languages, obviously) constantly all my life. It is odd but interesting being perceived as foreign by parts of your family when behaving according to the norms of another part of it.

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Spot on.

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Nadine Dorris is concerned that under the proposed deal the UK won’t have seats in the European Parliament…

… wow No Shit Sherlock!

Beggars belief… leaving the EU means just that… makes me wonder what else the Parliament odd-bods don’t really understand :sob::sob::sob:

I am finding it very hard to reply to this because it is so extraordinarily stupid.
The fact that people like her and Dominic Raab hold our future in their hands is terrifying.

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That’s roughly my feeling as well - Mrs Dorries is demonstrating, as if anyone needed a reminder with the likes of David Davies and Liam Fox around, that intelligence is not a necessary qualification to become an MP.

But she is right - the deal would leave us tied to EU regulations without a say in their formation, unable to persue our own trade deals, lacking freedom of movement within the EU for our workers. We could lobby, but that is about it.

The problem, however, is not that we didn’t stand up to the EU during negotiations. It is that leaving the EU while maintaining frictionless trade and a free border in Ireland is impossible. There is a “NSS” moment here but it is: “The promises that the Leave campaign made were undeliverable - Well, No Shit Sherlock , paint me green and call me a gherkin!”

May’s deal tries to minimise the economic harm of Brexit but in doing so it leaves us with a deal that really is the worst of all possible worlds.

I am left wondering in how many other areas of Government… the Parliament odd-bods have not/do not understand what is going on… what the results will be…

If they were running a Company and not just a Country… :sob: … they would have been sacked for incompetence long ago…

Idiots. It is appalling that such stupid, ghastly people should be in charge of anything.

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Did anyone listen to Any Questions this week?


The difference between John Redwood living in a dream world and digging a bigger hole everytime he opened his mouth and the concise factual input by Juergen Maier was a real contrast.

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They are still at it.
There is a meeting of the Famous Five this morning and a plan as to who will stand against TM, David Davis or Dominic Raab. Presumably against BoJo.
Dominic Grieve has said that if BoJo becomes leader of the Tories he will leave.
What a sad state of affairs our government has become and when you hear opinion on the streets, I heard it from Bolton, there is absolutely no recognition that we are leaving the club and absolutely no concern for the consequences for the UK economy.
It really is a case of the blind leading the blind.

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I think all MP’s should have to submit to a common sense test.
Intelligence is not sufficient and how these people can get up and shout when they have, obviously, not done or understood any research is appalling.
It really is a case of not just don’t confuse me with the facts my mind’s made up, but I just can’t be bothered to find out what the consequences are, not just for me but the whole of Britain.
Is there such a crime as economic treason?

Not sure that there would be many MP’s left if a common sense test was applied Jane.

It beggars belief that they are so stupid!

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They are so blinkered that their only interest is short term benefit for themselves and jockeying for advantage within their own party, the complete opposite of statesmanship. Terrible crowd of jumped-up second-rate ideologues.

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Redwood is a prize prat.
He alwats has been (pun intended!) and always will be.
I still recall him as Secretary of State for Wales when, not knowing the Welsh national anthem, he just stood there like a goldfish opening and closing his mouth…
Bring that up to date with two further SoSs who are equally inadequate; Raab for not knowing the significance of the Dover Calais crossing and Ms Bradley who admitted she didn’t understand the NI political dynamic.
Some might say its not their fault. After all, they were appointed by a weak PM who is finding it increasingly difficult to scrape the bottom of an empty barrel.
Then ass to that Nadine Dorries’ comment that she finds it unacceptable that we won’t have any MEPs in the European parliament after the UK leaves the EU :astonished:

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Surely it is not beyond the bounds of possibility that as a supposedly intelligent person they listened to the news?

Nadine Dorries should stick to writing novels.
She can create her own scenarios there without harming anybody else.

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