Key revelations from the Paradise Papers

…The Panama Papers show that British tax havens - some of the Overseas Territories and Crown Dependencies - played a crucial role in the scandal, with more than half of the companies involved in the leak being registered in UK-linked tax havens, such as the British Virgin Islands… http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/anders-dahlbeck/panama-papers_b_9625794.html?utm_hp_ref=uk-corporate-tax-avoidance

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Scandal? Really? You might not like the fact that there are mechanisms to reduce the amounts of tax due but they legally exist. Surely the only scandal is that we allow them to exist. The schemes will never go away, get rid of them in the UK and people will operate in another country. How many of us complain about the big corporations benefiting from such schemes then go on to buy their products or use their services?

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Spot on David.

If people are really that bothered about those that avoid tax they should boycott or stop supporting the various companies or entertainers that use the various schemes currently available.

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>You might not like the fact that there are mechanisms to reduce the amounts of tax due but they legally exist.

Well, they don’t “exist” for us Yanks - not in Europe, at least.

The US is the only country on earth that taxes its citizens wherever they live on this planet. So, if you live and work (or not) in France, you get to pay French taxes and, above an income of $100K a year, you will pay US taxes as well.

How the EU ever got to accept FATCA (the law Obama passed stateside to tax Americans abroad) is a wonder. And, as I have said before here, I suggest it be taken before a European court of law. (Doing so stateside has been tried and the case lost.)

Double taxation is not permitted by any country in Europe. You pay taxes wherever you state your residence. Period.

I think a court case would throw the FATCA agreement out . Now all I have to do is find an American lawyer who practices law in Europe …

‘You pay your taxes wherever you state your residence. Period.’
Not true. For example, a French resident receiving a British Government Pension still pays tax on that income in Britain.

But do they pay a tax on that income in France as well … iow, is the income “doubly taxed”?

But do they pay a tax on that income in France as well … iow, is the income “doubly taxed”?

Aquitaine David Martin
November 10 |

‘You pay your taxes wherever you state your residence. Period.’
Not true. For example, a French resident receiving a British Government Pension still pays tax on that income in Britain.

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In Reply To

Tony PERLA
November 10 |

You might not like the fact that there are mechanisms to reduce the amounts of tax due but they legally exist. Well, they don’t “exist” for us Yanks - not in Europe, at least. The US is the only country on earth that taxes its citizens wherever they live on this planet. So, if you live and work (…
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No. The income is declared in France but no tax is paid there.

So there is no double-taxation as occurs to Yanks under FATCA in the EU

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@Tony_P … No, there is no double-taxation for UK folk… (if you mean folk paying twice for the one income).

As has been thoroughly explained through various threads on this forum…France will offset tax it may consider due (through its own calculations) against that already paid in UK… Only if France reckons the person has not paid sufficient (according to French calculations) will France demand the part that it considers “underpayment”.

Of course, some UK income will attract Social Charges here in France…that must be paid… but that is not Tax !

I thought you had already chewed this particular bone to death. :grin:

Just out of interest who said that?
You claimed that ‘You pay your taxes wherever you state your residency. Period’.
I gave an example to show that your statement was incorrect. I made no comment about Yanks (sic). (In fact I would never use that word in any context.)

Perhaps you would understand better reading British-english? From the BBC here:

Double taxation
Reasons for giving up your US citizenship aren’t officially listed, but one of the main reasons cited is Fatca - a 2012 law designed to target overseas accounts held by wealthy Americans.

The United States is one of only two countries in the world that has citizenship-based taxation (the other is Eritrea.

As a US citizen you must file a tax return, no matter where you live, and often pay US taxes on top of the tax you already pay in your country of residence - so-called double taxation.

This has been the case in the US since the Civil War in the 19th Century and until recently really only affected the rich. Americans abroad are given a yearly allowance of $106,000 (£73,000) before double taxation kicks in.

But Fatca expands the scope of what can be taxed, and places a burden on foreign banks to identify US citizens among their customers to US tax authorities. The penalty for failing to do so can be as high as 30% of all a bank’s dealings with the USA.

Refused banking
As a result, ordinary Americans abroad are being denied access to basic banking facilities; banks would rather refuse US citizens’ custom than run the risk of hefty penalties.

“I went to one and as soon as I typed in I was born in the United States, there was a big set of red letters that said ‘No to US persons’,” says Jane. “I’ve got to pay my bills, I’ve got to buy food - I’ve got to have a bank.”

(Etc. etc., etc. ad nauseam …)

An American earning above $100K per year outside the US will pay double taxation - one to the country in which they earned the income and the other to the American Internal Revenue Service.

As I have said before, here, this double-taxation were it put before a European Court would likely be thrown out. As well it should be …

I would love to know who you are replying to. It certainly isn’t me. A conversation with yourself perhaps?

I’m not British. I put the question only in terms of Americans working in France.

And, yes, there IS double imposition of American citizens in such a case. Which is why a good many French banks no longer even wish to open American accounts because their operations in the US can be fined if they do so without assuring that the bank reports account movement.

I have also found the French “Decret” in the matter, and it mentions only the fact that the French bank must obtain a W8-form which stipulates the American Social-security Number.

Which is the sole numeric identifier in the US, aside from that on a driver’s licence. The US does not have Identity Cards with the sole exception of a passport, which all Americans do not obtain. We identify ourselves inside the US with our driver’s licence. Which, if you obtain a French drivers-license is withheld. So, you see the predicament a Yank living in France faces.

Some call that the “long arm of the law”. Others, like me, call it “the wrong arm of the law …”

But if you are a US citizen and have a French driving licence you have to have (or have had) a passport, so your identification isn’t a problem.

@TonyPERLA

as I have said… you have already thrashed to death … the subject about Americans and the problems some of them find through living in France (Tax, Identity etc…from your view-point)… let’s not be sidetracked… eh… let’s get back to the Paradise Papers, shall we ?

Oh, I see - this is a purely British forum, is it?
OK, then, I’m outta here …

smwsplr stella wood Team
November 11 |

@TonyPERLA

as I have said… you have already thrashed to death … the subject about Americans and the problems some of them find through living in France (Tax, Identity etc…from your view-point)… let’s not be sidetracked… eh… let’s get back to the Paradise Papers, shall we ?

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In Reply To

Tony PERLA
November 11 |

I’m not British. I put the question only in terms of Americans working in France. And, yes, there IS double imposition of American citizens in such a case. Which is why a good many French banks no longer even wish to open American accounts because their operations in the US can be fined if they do …
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Tony, take it up with Trumpet, he’s open to anything, or call yourself Apple and set up in Jersey. I’m not sure if this forum is British specific but if this double taxation business has been going on since the Civil war, looks like an awful lot of Americans don’t give two hoots about it. All I know is if Bob the plumber fiddles his tax he would usually expect to get banged up or hit with a very heavy fine, yet the rich and famous can avoid taxes by various fiddles and all anyone ever says is they ain’t doing anything illegal.

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Hi @Tony_P

This Forum of international folk… has already debated about Yanks and Double Taxation…

You started the Thread yourself on 9th September… we did our best, but could not seem to help you…not sure anything has changed since then…

https://www.survivefrance.com/t/fatca-and-we-yanks-in-europe/17539

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