Labour's Anti-Semitism

Politics
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As someone who has managed to put the cats amongst the pigeons on more than one occasion on this site, I am interested to know what people’s views are concerning the on-going Labour Anti-Semitism malarkey. This is not because I am smarting for an argument, but quite genuinely because I am dead curious to know how this seemingly quite homogeneous demographic (on this site) views the on-going situation.

This is not meant to be party political, in the sense that I am neither a Tory nor a Labour supporter. I tend to pick my party loyalties based on a wide gamut of issues, and have never found one party addressing that range in any coherent and unified manner, so this has caused massive issues for me over the years when it came time to vote.

To nail (some) of my flags to the mast, I feel obligated to say that I feel as though the whole issue has, IMHO, been blown out of all proportion and sense.

I am frankly sick and tired of the term “Anti Semitism” being chucked about any time anyone says anything negative towards either anyone who is Jewish, or has something critical to say about Israel. Today, Margaret Hodge has again claimed that she has been trolled because of Anti-Semitism, when in reality what she has been “subjected to” was in no way any worse than a billion other stupid comments that people make daily on Twitter and the like on any subject.

I have - for many many years - been a rabid Corbyn-hater, and am proud of having been such. This has, in large part, been because of his cosying-up with the PLO and other terrorist organisations. He has proved himself to be consistently and rabidly anti-Israel, and I doubt wether he would ever deny this. He has spent his entire political career being friends with the world’s worst characters, such as Yasser Arafat, Hugo Chavez and the like. No secrets there…

But making the leap from aTHAT to being an Anti-Semite, well, I for one, have never seen or heard anything that came out of his poisonous mouth that indicated such a thing.

Because he is someone (not uniquely) who gets things muddled in his mind, he has totally failed to address the issue in any convincing way, I feel, because his hatred of Israel is so total that he ALMOST loses his sense of logic when attacked on the matter.

(If you’ve made it this far you’re going to LOVE how this email ends…)

Corbyn has, for many years, worked with and appointed and been friends with many Jewish people, and I have NEVER had the sense that he was doing-so in order to cosy-up to this group. Indeed, Keir Starmer, who was Corbyn’s right hand man for many years, is himself married to a Jewish lady, and it was never an issue for him.

Don’t get me wrong - I have absolutely NO desire for to Corbyn to be given the whip back - he is universally bad news.

But equally I am utterly fed up of people bandying-about the Anti-Semitism argument every time anyone says anything about a Jew or Israel. IT DRIVES ME NUTS !!

And why should it do so?

Well, aside from being Jewish myself and a British born citizen of UK plc, I am also a VERY proud holder of an Israeli passport and nationality since birth!

No folks - this isn’t a case of the pot calling the kettle at all. It is, however, because of the fact that I Israel, under certain democratically-elected governments, has indeed acted in ways that are not acceptable. If we can’t comment and criticise it as we would - say, Donald Trump’s behaviour - then where is free speech? Shouting out “Anti-Semite” is actually the most self-defeating of all the ways that one could respond.

So - and this is because I have seen how conversations go on this board all too frequently - this is absolutely NOT a discussion about the rights and wrongs of Israel bla bla bla, but definitely about whether you feel as though the Labor Party is indeed riddled with Anti-semites, any more than any other part of the country - as this problem DOES exist, but the truth gets drowned in the cacophony.

Okay folks.
I’m ready.
Let Me Have It!!!

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I don’t think that the Labour party has the monopoly on having people of Anti-Semitic tendencies amongst its ranks, as I think they are to be found across a broad spectrum of British society, and probably within all political parties as well as none of them were the full truth to be known.

What I think has happened is that certain members of the Labour party have been brave enough to say publicly that they disagree with certain elements of Israeli domestic and foreign policy, and that rather than answer the charges laid against Israel, certain persons (some Jewish and some not), have taken the opportunity to respond by labelling those that raise the criticism as being Anti-Semitic as an alternative to having to try to justify the nasty truths of the matters raised.
Some of this smoke screen has no doubt been in the interests of internal power struggles within the Labour party itself, and at other times the Anti-Semitism issue has been used to try and silence those that speak about ‘inconvenient’ truths.

The whole issue seems to have become politicised, and even the term ‘Anti-Semitic’ itself has had its meaning altered into meaning either anti-jewish or anti-Israeli, and that, often depending on what the user of the term finds convenient at the time.
I have to admit to starting out in life with certain anti-jewish sentiments learnt from my father which were really without anything other than superficial foundation. During the passing of the years I have endeavoured through self education to eradicate those sentiments, and believe that I have been reasonably successful in so doing.
I will also declare that I have strong anti-Israel sentiments in regard to Israel’s treatment of the Palestinian population, particularly in regard to the seizing of lands for exclusive Israeli use on the West Bank.
Does that make me Anti-Semitic ? Well I like to think not, but in the end it is for others to judge.

Additionally, I wonder how many of those that use the term Anti-Semitic do in fact realise that Semites are people who speak any language derived from the original Semitic language of south west Asia and North Africa. The term Semite therefore includes the peoples of Morocco, Tunisia, Algeria, Egypt, parts of Ethiopia, Saudi Arabia, and Palestine.
My vote is therefore to drop the misuse of the term Anti-Semitic in favour of a more honest, and more accurate, use of Anti-jewish or Anti-Israeli where such may be appropriate.

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I think that where there has been a great wrong done to people and I am thinking of discrimination against black people,here, the same problem came about when anti-discrimination laws made it illegal to discriminate, especially in the field of work. It became exceedingly difficult for employers to give jobs to the most highly qualified without being accused of racism because a black candidate didn’t get that job.

Now we have regulations to include the disabled, black people and women but I have no idea of how we are going to stop people from voicing their views against certain governments which they see to be oppressive in some way without the other side calling them for discrimination.

Personally, I see Trump and Netanyahu in the same camp and Trump’s toadying to Israel as a means to obtaining votes from both Zionists and extreme right Evangelists.
Israel is as divided as the USA and the UK, but the difference there being that privileges are accorded to the extreme Orthodox which are denied to the rest of the population.

Discrimination is a world wide problem but I think in the case of Jeremy Corbyn he has placed himself so far to the left of the Labour Party that the only ones shouting that he is being discriminated against are the same people whose policies brought Labour to such a cataclysmic defeat in the last election.

I think more to the point of those of us living in France is the appalling adoption of Section 24 and the
consequences it has for freedom of reporting and liberty in France.

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As a leader you have to lead which at times does mean you have to put aside your own personal views/thoughts for the good of the party, with regard to AS Jeremy Corbyn simply couldn’t do that and it cost Labour at the last election, even after EHRC report came out he still did not accept that under his leadership Labour could have done more to stamp out AS within the party.

I liken his poor leadership over AS to his feeble efforts to support the Remain campaign which I believe had an effect on the result, there is also no doubt that the thought of Corbyn as PM put many voters off supporting Labour last year.

With regards to the OP’s question I think Starmer has cleverly used the AS issue to rid the party of sections of the left in order to bring Labour back to the centre ground of politics which is where they have the best chance of winning in 2024.

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Jane…

Can you give us a link to Section 24… ???

(I’ve been looking, but haven’t found anything untoward.)

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I think this link will illuminate the particular Section 24 to which Jane is referring.

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Ah… cheers for that… I was looking in a completely different area of legislations…

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This has now been passes and is the thin end of the wedge to wards the thought police and a police state.
I am flabbergasted that this should be happening in France, which, supposedly, prides itself on the liberty of its citizens.
I can see the fourth estate challenging this in high profile cases.

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Just a bit more on the photo reporting tangent.
There can be unintended consequences as well. I was once arrested and (briefly) imprisoned by the Carabinieri in Rome for taking a tourist photo that included one of their number in dress uniform standing guard outside a monument. It took a call to the British embassy, and a visit from a consul to release me, drive me to the station and get me out of town. All this as a harmless Interrail visitor.

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That is shocking.

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Apart from being generally pro France and pro EU how is it homogeneous? Asking as genuinely interested.

As far as anti-Semitism is concerned I cannot answer your question more eloquently than @Robert_Hodge has. I find it truly frightening how language can be policed to such an extent that all conversation can be shut down with an accusation of anti-Semitism.

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Part of the History I have managed to retain in my own memory is that the current P.M. in the UK before World War 2, along with other countries, founded a home for Jews by taking part of Palestine with bits of Egypt and even an island belonging to Saudia Arabis. The Palestinians unfortunately were not given their own means of government and were supposed to be taken care of by Jordan who after many demonstrations by the Palestinians dropped them. History in the Bible and Torah are put up for explanations.

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An interesting read:

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Hi Valerie - I find people’s view of Corbyn is mainly shaped by where they get their information - and as nearly all main stream media in the UK has been engaged in a prolonged character assassination I think it’s essential to read people like Jewish Voice for Labour to form anything like a balanced view.
Another essential source on the broader Israel-Palestine issues is Jonathan Cook - a British journalist who actually lives in Nazareth…

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I think it is disgraceful what has happened to Jeremy Corbyn. Initially when anti-Semitism cropped up again in the Labour party I had some sympathy for Starmer trying to get in top of it, but now I think he has created a rod for his own back. Shutting down all conversation leaves him totally open to that being used against him.

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I have very little sympathy for JC, he is incapable of admitting he could have done more about AS when leader and just wants to blame anyone but himself.

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Did you watch the video I posted? The professor who wrote the definition of anti-Semitism said it was being weaponised by the right-wing. True anti-Semitism is a very real danger and this sorry infighting and use of anti-Semitism to score political points in the Labour party does not do justice to anyone.

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I don’t believe Corbyn in any way is racist or anti-semitic, my take on him is purely based on how he dealt with AS as Labour leader and his immediate response to the EHRC report. Starmer is using Corbyn to shape the future direction of the party and who can blame him, Labour has lost the past four elections with Corbyn being leader for the last three.

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This is a good video too Marijke…