my grandad learnt to be a fluent german speaker at 60 just so he could go on holiday walking through Austria and Germany so I have no excuses. he set a great example, kids learn at such a rapid rate. one of my french friends children is bilingual like her mum, learning German and occitan at college. such great opportunities out there.
John that is the other problem, one of my first encounters was with an overfrenchy English lady who saw me potting plants on my village house steps and immediately stopped to say oh your English aren't you. then proceed ed to tell me how she lived in the big house with the big garden and pool. I didn't ask. I was very content potting my plants feeling happy with my life after that I spoke French in the cafe anf around the village generally.
Hi Glen, yes know a few............ that is why we dont have them as good friends..... dont you just love it when you are at the airport and you get them looking down there nose's at you and they just have to ask where your going and oh is that just for a holiday!! and when you say NO I LIVE there............. they are gobsmacked......... I like you did not do french at school, but have great French neighbors who didn't speak English and we have taught each other!!!
thats great Tracy, my 3 year old days mummy i'll speak English in England and French in France, except at home. Thats fair enough.
I can only say that, the lady in your bar tabac is bieng just plain ignorant !!. I like yourself came here 10 years ago due to falling in love with a french lady. I also had to learn french from scratch, and make a great effort to fit in with her family !!. But I would never speak french to an english speaker, even if I was in french company.
NUF SAID !!!
I very much agree with Andrew (who knows that already) and Véronique, also believe Allison is quite right to add the Dunning-Kruger Effect as a probable part of that. I am also bilingual, but not French as one of them, so is my wife with Italian as her mother tongue and French as her second but in many respects better than Italian. English is her fourth language in fact. Our children are bilingual in English and French, one is learning two others in preparation for collége and later life. So, what should I speak when we are in a public place? Like others, I weigh up the situation and go for the best solution. I have just been to market, specifically to buy crumpets from an English couple. I naturally spoke English. I went to another stall to buy fish where only French is used, so switched. I do not rate my French as so great because of the amount of time between younger years and now forgetting it but I do not play clever games with languages because it can be snobbism or faux superiority as Glen is saying or simply the kind of lack of confidence Dunning-Kruger describes.
To people, on the other hand, who live here for years on end and have never made any effort to learn, including those who use age as an excuse, I simply say that they should get off their cloud. Yes, English is the global linguafranca and may well be for all time, but it does not give anybody the right to assume everybody else MUST learn it because... I do think that all children, wherever, should be taught at least a second language as early as possible but that does not need to be English, there are plenty more that are holding their own in the world for that not to be a priority.
Our neighbour is just the opposite.
She is French, but translates books from English to French and almost always refuses to speak any English with us. I find it very strange as I am sure that it would help her to keep up with modern usage, as it is many moons ago since she took her degree. I speak tolerable french, but Jim struggles sometimes and she finds it hard to help him out.
We have our Monday morning french/english circle with two french and two english, have a lot of fun and learn a lot as well. It is a non-threatening environment where we can correct each other's mistakes and we all know that that is what we are there for.
Glen snobbery is alive and thriving here in all its many forms from I have been here longer than you or I live in a big house with 6 bedrooms though 5 have never had their doors opened as thereâs only two of us to what, you cant speak French yet , an acquaintance of ours who has been here 10 years sometimes goes shopping with my wife who is struggling with the language the acquaintance will happily converse with the butcher, as they leave the counter my wife will ask what did you say her reply of cant remember tells me its either alzhiemers setting in or I can speak French but Iâm not helping you, Glen I would spend less time in that shop she obviously can do without your money there is no obvious reason why she cant talk to you even if she uses half French and English our pharmacist speaks English he is from Paris we often have a conversation regarding the different dialect north to southern France we always converse in English once while we were talking he broke off to serve a customer who spoke French when she had gone he told me that she was English but will not speak to the English his comment of only the English will shun their compatriots says it all
Love the idea of the 'Bon Echange' :)
To be fair, sheâs only helping you by speaking only French.
Itâs difficult because even if it seems more natural to speak English between Anglophones, we are scrutinized and often, we get negative attention when we do it in public. Personally, itâs a pet peeve of mine to be spoken to in English in public (above all by the French). I have some Anglophone friends who donât speak French well, so I speak to them in English when I have to, but I would not have come to France in the first place if I hadnât wanted to speak French. 
That being said, this is coming from someone who just a few months ago was harassed on public transport for speaking English. It makes people uncomfortable when you speak a language they donât understand- so perhaps your dame doesnât want to be impolite. Perhaps she too has had negative attention in the past, and isnât necessarily doing it to be a snob.
I think it boils down to good manners and being sensitive to the fact that learning a new language is easy for some and very difficult for others.
I lived in the Middle East for 6 years in a company which employed about 40 different nationalities. The first thing I realised was that I had been lucky to be born in UK as English was the common language throughout the company - However I was sensitive to the fact that some of my colleagues needed me to phrase my sentences in such a way that I was not using colloquialisms and to sometimes rephrase what I was saying.
The same applies now in my efforts to communicate effectively in French but the boot is on the other foot!
Our level of French has now reached the stage when French people sometimes think we are better than we really are & speak at 100mph whereas before they spoke more slowly to help! So unless you are absolutely fluent in a language it is arrogant not to be sensitive to the fact that speakers at all levels of ability may need help.
I have found that the biggest language snobs are not those who live here permanently - but holiday property owners - especially the ones who bought their property many years ago - and resent the new Brits who have moved to France permanently. They stay for a matter of weeks but like to give the impression they are on first name terms with every French person in the village.
We have been here in the Dordogne for over 8 years and my wife teaches English voluntarily in a local community college and she also hosts regular tea parties for French & English friends where we speak for an hour in French then an hour in English - she calls it the "Bon Echange" - so we like to thinks we are sensitive to how we all struggle to learn each others language.
I think it boils down to good manners and being sensitive to the fact that learning a new language is easy for some and very difficult for others.
I lived in the Middle East for 6 years in a company which employed about 40 different nationalities. The first thing I realised was that I had been lucky to be born in UK as English was the common language throughout the company - However I was sensitive to the fact that some of my colleagues needed me to phrase my sentences in such a way that I was not using colloquialisms and to sometimes rephrase what I was saying.
The same applies now in my efforts to communicate effectively in French but the boot is on the other foot!
Our level of French has now reached the stage when French people sometimes think we are better than we really are & speak at 100mph whereas before they spoke more slowly to help! So unless you are absolutely fluent in a language it si arrogant not to be sensitive to the fact that speakers at all levels of ability may need help.
I have found that the biggest language snobs are not those who live here permanently - but holiday property owners - especially the ones who bought their property many years ago - and resent the new Brits who have moved to France permanently. They stay for a matter of weeks but like to give the impression they are on first name terms with every French person in the village.
We have been here in the Dordogne for over 8 years and my wife teaches English voluntarily in a local community college and she also hosts regular tea parties for French & English friends where we speak for an hour in French then an hour in English - she calls it the "Bon Echange" - so we like to thinks we are sensitive to how we all struggle to learn each others language.
Oh my! Was that you speaking my very thoughts Frances?I too arrived in France when I was 55 ,with absolutely NO French at all even though I am English,-my school language was German,which I didnt enjoy at all.For the first six months here I think I was in shock,even though I had tried to prepare myself for the change.Gradually the French has come,the understanding of parts of spoken language,the ability to speak quite well with some people yet to look and feel like an idiot with others.I too have reached a plateau,can read snippets of French,can understand a lot,but my accent is appalling!I am 65 now and continue to try-I listen to other non-French people speaking French and wonder at their confidence,and for me this is the key-I am not confident in speaking French in front of French people! However,I will keep on trying-my bi-lingual French grandson said to me a while ago-'your French is not bad now' and I asked'but what about my accent?'His reply was so French'aah!'.
I also agree with Suzanne and VĂ©ronique.
When I am with other Brits but we are in French/Italian/Spanish company, everyone speaks French so that we all understand each other and no one thinks that we are talking behind peoples backs. However when we are alone, then we speak English.
This of course changes at the hotel reception. At the reception we speak French or English until we work out which nationality we have in front of us or if we are asked if we speak a certain language.
I have however been snubbed by British people because I spoke to them in English when they wanted to speak French. One man even walked out of the restaurant I was working at because I spoke to him in English and not French!! Go figure...!
Love it - 'outfrenching'.
My 8yr old seems to have it balanced. Born here to 2 British parents who are reasonably good French speakers, my daughter seems to know exactly which language to use at any given time. We just spent 3 weeks in the UK (the longest time ever for her) and she refused to let a word of French slip out, even when urged by proud grandparents. The couple of times she didn't know the answer in English, she would whisper in my ear for a translation. Although when I reprimanded her for saying something out loud about someone, she grinned and said next time she would tell me in French so no one but us would understand!
When at home in France with a mixed bag of friends, the majority of whom are French/English couples she always uses English to the English and French to the French without hesitation. It wold appear the truly bilingual don't even have to think about which language to use. Those of us that struggle and get it wrong still have some way to go! Yes, I am truly envious!
Glen, like you I don't have an aptitude for languages and find it very difficult now in my 60s to improve my French - but like you I try very hard and make the effort to speak French to the French. Sometimes in "mixed" company where someone's French is poor its necessary to speak in English to help them be a part of the group. I think our French friends understand the problem and bear with it, in between the French conversations. It's a matter of balance and politeness. As for the English lady in the tabac I'd just continue to struggle in French but I bet the locals think she's a prat for behaving as she does.
I'm no psychology expert but we have been living here 10 yrs as well but still find some of us have more vocabulary than others. For me, I have managed to add to my school girl french and can get by okay but my husband never had the chance to learn languages so finds following a conversation difficult at times. We also have new British neighbours who are learning French and really want to integrate into our little hamlet community so I see no problem whatsoever for the person who can understand to automatically translate French/English and English/French as the conversations flow so that everyone can participate. Maybe your lady in the bar/tabac should think about doing that, it would certainly earn her a few brownie points in my opinion, otherwise she just looks like she's scoring points. I would only speak French to English people if they ask me to in order to practice what they have learnt in class.
I feel quite uncomfortable speaking French to an English person but do speak French if in the company of a French person as well. Quite often with French people you speak French to them but they reply in English and so the conversation continues. I think the worst situation I saw was when I entered the shop opposite my house (having had a house here 40 years) when a stranger immediatley and ostentasiously started taliking Breton rather than French to the shopkeeper. He was Welsh. The same thing happened to me in rural Wales many years ago when I (50% Welsh an 5/16 English) entered a pub where everybody was speaking English until I ordered my pint in English. One of my dislikes however is when I have been used as a translator at parties by English people who can't be bothered to learn or try any French. I agree with others it's usually a question of good manners and the language aptitude comes down the list.
We've come across this phenomenon. We call it "out-frenching". The ultimate achievement obviously being, to out-French the French. It extends beyond language to other aspects of life, such as boasting about one's legitimacy in France (holidaymaker or resident), how successful one's offspring might be in France, type of car driven (has to be French, naturally). Probably many more instances, enough to write a book which would be eagerly devoured by the Outfrenchers back home.
Suspect this person doesn't want to be seen speaking English in front of her French customers. I do feel awkward on the rare occasion I've had the chance to speak some English in front of French-only speakers. When I lived in NZ there were so many Asians speaking Asian languages in Auckland, shop signs, products in Asian languages i felt I wasn't in my own country and couldn't understand a word that was spoken around me. My daughter felt irritated at High School because the Asians spoke Asian when they were together and she wwas excluded. It's very effective at making one feel excluded so I try not to do that to french folks. In my case i don't get to speak English except sometimes at work with researchers.
I'm finding my language acquisition to be a nightmare. i already understand much of the grammar when I arrived but I learn french in the days when you learnt to read and write a bit but speaking was less important. I was incompetent in understanding normal spoken French. Now just over two years after arriving here and making a big effort, even though I live alone, I' distressed by my lack of understanding and ability to speak in a flow. Every time i open my mouth I have an intellectual exercise in rearranging words, finding vocab and fmaking things agree in the sentence I am trying to say. It's damed hrd work. i was 55 when I arrived here. I feel despairing of ever being able to say anything i want to say in french (anything) and to understand French TV and films. I miss small parts of sentences that make all the difference to thier meaning and so I use my intelligence to guess what is going on. This gives me the gist but not the understanding. I am immersed in french on the weekends with my boyfriend but progress has reached a plateau and isn't budging. NZers don't hear french on TV, films, radio such as the Brits have access to. We couoldn't pop across the channel for a weekend dose.
How long does it take before you become competent? Can pass the new oral exams in French to become naturalised? I love the language but it's MUCH harder to acquire than I ever imagined.