Hi Folks, Having moved to France a few years ago to a house refurbed by a British builder in the 90’s now getting around to replacing the twin&earth ring mains and simple circuit breakers with french norm. Tableaux and and tableaux links all installed by french electrician, leaving me to do donkey work.
Couple of questions those in the know could help me with please.
English 90’s gas boiler connection requires ‘3 amp fused spur’ of course no such thing in France, french leccy spec’d out a 16amp MCB. Can’t find a 3amp MCB so do I install a 2 amp MCB or reuse one of the many UK spur boxes with a 3 amp fuse on the 16a MCB?
We have a septic tank pump (immersed) to occasionally empty the water from the tank to soak away ( we live on a very rocky plot). This still works happily on the circuits not protected by 30ma disjuncteurs and does not trip the circuit breakers. Trips the standard 30ma disjunc, every time. As the pump and cable are only 2yr old I don’t fancy replacing, (smelly) and works fine without RCD, is there a different disjuncteur that is more tolerant? (Ps not been brave enough to stick multimeter on neutral and earth when it’s running)
Any advice (apart from don’t buy a house ‘done up’ by a 90’s British ‘builder’, apologies to some, think we had a ‘non-confirmist’!) most welcome.
I think the best person to answer your questions is @Badger Sounds like the insulation of your pump is breaking down as a trip generally measures the leakage between earth and phase an insulation PAT test could sort that question.
If a 2A will surfice without tripping a lot then should be ok, what current does the boiler draw normally. Thats my 2 cents worth.
The boiler can’t possibly be legal in France so needs replacing by the sound of it. You shouldn’t mix and match UK and French electrics (pre-brexit it was *technically* OK to do everything to UK standards but no longer and was a bad idea anyway). Run on 16A MCB with appropriate cabling (i.e 1.5mm2
At the time it was installed if it had the right certs it would have been, although you may be coming to that conclusion via a different angle that I have not considered?
Yes, Brexit - it might have been OK at the time. It might even be OK had it been left completely undisturbed but presumably connecting it up now needs it to adhere to French standards.
Anyway assuming it is legal and until @badger tells us otherwise I’d presume it will be OK on a 16A as long as the cabling is up to snuff - on the principle that fuses in the UK system are there to protect the cable from overheating.
May be time to check if not having a France certified electrician doing extensive house rewiring negates the household insurance.
You will need to obtain an ‘Attestation de Conformité’, which will be the problem because most qualified French electricians will not sign-off on work that they have not done themselves.
We seem to be condemming the man as usual. He stated connections to the main boards will be via a french electrician, he is doing the donkey work to which I believe he means the chasing in of gaine/cables.
I may be wrong but if a property has an electricity supply, meter and ancient wiring then the owner already has a account with the supplier.
Of course upgrading the installation to current norms is best done by a qualified electrician or competent person but it is only when it is a brand new installation (new build) that an attestation is required as EDF will not provide the electricity.
Do CONSUEL still exist for the initial testing of the installation and the ohms reading? I was always getting them to come to sites to sign on new installations. I could actually look on my own paperwork for this new build but can’t be bothered to get it all out of the cupboard at the moment and I just wondered.
Now I’m sure you chuckled when you chose your “forum” name … “Profbodge”…
and I’m wondering just what it is that your French Electrician has felt you are capable of doing all by yourself
what is this “donkey work” ???
I’ve read your post a couple of times and am still a little befuddled…
but I hope someone will be able to help you… eventually.
The boiler requires it’s own dedicated supply. I’d run a 1,5mm² circuit, terminated in either a simple junction box, or fit a standard socket. The maximum disjoncteur (note spelling) value for that is 16A but I’d drop it to 10A. There’s no point in fitting an expensive 2A.
Under NF C 15-100 ALL circuits must be be protected via a 30mA différentiel.
Theoretically your pump might need a more specialised trip, but that would be a first in my world. You need to run proper checks separately, on the wiring & on the pump. One, other, or both will most likely have a fault. If it shares a différentiel with other circuits it might be worth switching those off to see if the fault still exists as you might be suffering from cumulative errors which stack up to trip the device.
Only if there is no “branchement définitif” yet in place, although there’s 'nowt to stop someone having an inspection if they so wished.
Thanks for your reply, correct the boiler needs to be replaced, it’s inefficient the hot water tank too, plus all the various safety valves, expansion tanks and pipework naturally as all is in UK sizes. So no low cost job, runs off lpg too, so not cheap to run. Next year project to consider solar/heat pump/new gas…
Yep sounds like I’ll have to measure the voltage leakage, could be wire or pump, smelly job whatever!
Running the circuit without a différentiel isn’t safe, & you’ve already said that it won’t run with one involved i.e. you can’t check voltage without creating a dangerous condition.
If in doubt please find a competent person with the right test gear.
Thanks Badger, sound helpful advice, thanks very much.
Yes understand about own supply to boiler, on reflection I think I will install a 3amp fuse somewhere at the boiler end, I can’t afford to potentially fry any circuits as the whole thing will be toast. It’s going to be replaced by something else next summer anyway. Your thoughts are however appreciated.
Re the septic pump, , I’m gonna have to get my big rubber gloves out then and haul the smelly thing out. I’ll check out if it is earth leakage, maybe cable rub or it may be a characteristic of the pump start up that’s the issue. I was hoping that someone here had come across immersed pumps and if I need to change from maybe the type a or AC disjuncteur to a type F, as this could be ‘nuisance’ tripping.
I’ll post back what I find in the second case. Thanks once again.
Donkey work - drilling holes in 600-900mm stone walls, chasing walls, digging trenches through bedrock, pulling cables, wearing out diamond hole bits, fitting wall boxes, getting told off for filling house with dust…etc, then making good.
But won’t be to French standards as the wall thickness will be less.
To be fair I bought my 12mm pipe in the UK as it was cheaper than in France and it also was not to French standards (0.7mm thick walls vs 1.0mm) - it was CE marked though so presumably “legal”.
