Orange are driving me mad

We have a Bouyghey Internet Box which uses an Orange Internet Line. Last week an Orange engineer went to connect a new house to the internet. He turned off the line went to to the new house and informed them he couldn’t do it as the lines in the road by their new house were not correct. He then went away without reconnecting the line. Now Bouyghy say it is Orange’s responsibility and Orange say I have to report it to Bouygues. I even got the local mayor to try and sort it but to no avail. I now have no Internet no telephone and the mobile signal is practically nonexistent. Anybody out there have any ideas?

Forgive me for stepping in to a matter that I don’t really have experience with but working from first principles…

Do you get internet and telephone via the Bouygues box or just internet and an Orang landline?

Who bills you for the various services?

Hope you have more luck than me getting them to return - what folk do not understand is that Orange own the line and if its not connected then no one will take any responsibility - my wait has been 5 weeks and counting,

I think Martin’s problem is subtly different in that he is a Bouygues customer not Orange.

It happens fairly commonly in the UK - when the xDSL and telephony were “unbundled” (dégroupé) it was easy to get into a situation where neither the telephony supplier or the internet supplier wanted to fix faults and they just blamed each other leaving the customer frustrated with nowhere to go.

Fortunately there is usually a route forward if you are persistent.

I’m assuming, Martin, that you now only get a bill from Bouygues and pay them for internet and phone?

If so then phone Bouygues customer support and tell them your internet and phone don’t work and ask them to fix it. Do not mention Orange, if they mention Orange say “But I am your customer, I pay nothing to Orange so I am not their customer, I pay you for an internet connection and it is not working, please fix it”. You might need to be persistent :wink:

It is a simple application of contract law - if you are not paying Orange you have no business relationship or contract with them so you can’t force them to do anything - your contract (for provision of internet and telephony) is with Bouygues and it is they who are not delivering (in turn they will have a contract with Orange).

If, on the other hand, you still have an active Orange "ligne fixe"contract on the line phone Orange customer support and tell them your phone is not working, do not mention the internet side of things. If they mention it say “yes, but my phone is not working and you supply that for me not Bouygues, please provide me with the service that I am paying you for”.

Good luck though, with French customer service being famed for its dismissive attitude you will need it.

Not to mention if you get past the “accepting it is our responsibility to do something” stage there is still the “getting them to do it” problem.

If you can cope with the length of time that you will be without internet the final option is to cancel all services and start again.

What France needs is the equivalent of Andrews and Arnold as an ISP (shameless plug though my only relationship with them is as a satisfied customer) - they specifically promise that you can have this sort of crap ongoing and if you switch to them they will move heaven and earth to get Openretch to sort things out.

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Orange has taken over France Telecom ( a long time now) , so if you have a telephone fixed line that was France Telecome in your house then it is Orange’s responsibility !
If you change operators for your fixed line and internet then it’s the responsibility of whoever you have changed to, ie, SFR, Boygues, Free …
I am still with FT/Orange because I need a fixed line that works with a tele-alert. Hence when I had some big problems the Mayor got it all sorted for me !

It’s a shame that you and Maggi are having problems but the fact is there are millions of perfectly happy Orange and Bouygues customers in France. I know from experience that Orange are very efficient when a fault is reported and if the connection cannot be fixed quickly they will supply you with a 4G connection to keep you online. Bouygues have a good reputation for customer service. I do not have an Internet connection through them but my mobile contract is and they have always been good. As Anne has pointed out Orange customers have the smoothest link to getting line problems sorted out but the delay, if any, when using another provider should not be significant. I hope that you both sort out your problems quickly.

I must admit that my own (limited) experience of Orange customer service was reasonably positive - I originally had the line connected but they sent the bill to the house when, obviously being a “maison secondaire” I wasn’t there so it wasn’t paid - so they cut me off!!

A phone call to customer services English line (and, let’s face it, BT doesn’t provide CS in French) sorted that but the line was still dead - a second call identified a fault and the line was working by the time I returned for my next visit.

The only other glitch was that when the internet connection was activated I was surprised to find that it was an ADSL connection when I thought that I had ordered VDSL - apparently you can’t (or couldn’t) have VDSL without the TV package. I still don’t understand the logic in that but a further call did sort it out and I am now pleased with the service (except that it’s a bit on the steep side but that is my own fault for keeping the traditional “ligne fixe” working instead of having the phone via the LiveBox - there was a reason for this but I’m not sure I can remember it and I’m not sure it was a good one).

I must admit I’ve never used a helpline, I’ve reported faults and accepted rendezvous through my Orange Livebox App. Very straightforward and they keep you up for date with regular emails.
The fixed line or no fixed line debate was covered fairly recently. I, like many other people cannot see the point of paying a monthly line rental. It’s a very expensive way to be able to make a phone call even when your VOIP is down.

Totally agree with you David that a monthly line rental is expensive, the only reason I have one is for the tele alert, otherwise I would have changed years ago ! :astonished:

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Well, there is still a line rental element if you have the phone connected to the Livebox rather than the exchange at the other end but Orange do rather take the p*** with their pricing either way.

I guess they want everyone onto the VOIP network and are making it expensive to stay on the analogue phone system. BT are doing the same and have announced they will move everyone to VOIP by (I think) 2025.

I think my original reasoning was that I would move to VOIP (the house phones in the UK are entirely VOIP) but via a 3rd party supplier as the Orange offering is so limited (one phone port, no ability to directly connect a WiFi handset, only one simultaneous call) so not cancelling the “ligne fixe” when I engaged them for Internet was supposed to be a temporary measure.

Then I discovered that French VOIP operators don’t seem to be able to give out “geographic” numbers, and I didn’t really have time to look at their offerings in detail anyway so the situation has sort of “stuck” (along with a million other things here and in the UK which need doing but are on the back burner).

I don’t understand a couple of the points in your post. There is no separate line rental charge if you use Orange’s Livebox and VOIP without a fixed line telephone. What do you mean about ‘geographic’ numbers? The phone numbers around me are very location specific with the first three pairs of digits being the same. I can use my iPhone as a WIFI handset by using an Orange App.

You have a line, it needs maintenance, you are paying for this. The fact that it is not mentioned and if you want an analogue phone on top Orange charge you silly money does not change this.

I wasn’t aware of the app - maybe they didn’t have it available in 2015 or maybe I just didn’t look hard enough but as soon as someone says “there’s an app” I shudder - OK, in this case it’s probably not so bad but when you say “there’s an app” I hear “there are security and data protection issues”.

Can I connect my Android phone, which supports VOIP natively to the system?

Can I connect a WiFi VOIP desk phone?

Can I connect a VOIP ATA to which I can hook a standard analogue phone (not so much of a need asthere’s an analogue phone port on the Livebox).

I think that the answer is “no” to all of these because Orange don’t use standard VOIP protocols (again, as soon as you say “they have their own protocol” I hear “lock in”)

Edit: In fact, for the general case of “smart” gadgets as soon as I hear “there’s an app” my brain translates it to “you will not control the hardware that you own, there will be data protection and security issues, significant or total loss of functionality can occur at any time if the manufacturer chooses, goes bust or gets bought out”.

I’ve heard it all now. You are desperate to prove that you are correct even though you clearly are not. I do not pay 12x€17(?) a year to have a fixed line telephone. I use VOIP and do not have to pay a separate line rental fee to do so. The overall internet package is good value, especially when compared to the fixed line cost. I have a smartphone and an iPad. I use Apps day in, day out to do everything from recording my electricity usage, online banking, money transfers, booking rail tickets to checking the tide times at the coast. Taking advantage of a free App from my internet provider is hardly going to cause me sleepless nights worrying about its security. I still claim that you are wrong on all three points.
No separate line rental fee is charged if you use VOIP only.
You can use WIFI handsets with Liveboxes.
French landline numbers are geographically specific.

1 I did not say it was separate. I just said it was a hidden part of the cost. The fixed line “rental” is that plus the provision of the analogue service (you get a very small discount on the rental if you have ligne fixe and take internet without cancelling it).

2 OK I did not know that and my research before I got the line suggested otherwise. Looking at the Livebox settings there is some stuff about “pairing” phones which doesn’t look like standard VOIP but I am quite prepared to admit I was wrong. do you know of a specific model which works?

3 Yes, French landline numbers are “geographic” in so far as the first two digits are concerned. French VOIP number (from independent VOIP operators) are in the 09 part of the number plan with other non-geographic numbers, often associated with premium services and so I didn’t feel comfortable with one as a home phone number (I know that if I use the Orange service I get to keep my 02 “geographic” number).

Yes I am sure you use lots of apps and (like 99.99% of the population) don’t give a thought to whether they or the systems that they connect to are secure - I’m sure lots of people thought Facebook messenger was a good thing before they found it slurped all their contacts, allowed Facebook to map out their entire family and social network, even people who were not on Facebook and then sell all that information on to advertisers.

I don’t mind admitting when I am wrong - in fact I opened this part of the thread with the statement that my original reasons for keeping the analogue line were dodgy (well, my thinking about how I ultimately wanted the phones to work was over-engineered, might not work as I want in France andI have taken way too long getting to the point where I can sort it out properly). The intention is to drop the analogue line (so totally agree with you there) but it means pissing around wit the phone wiring in the house. It will probably get done when the last bedroom is sorted as the Livebox is in there on a pile of boxes so can’t stay there when we convert the room from temporary store to another bedroom. It’s just not terribly convenient at the moment.

For point 1 please just think about it for a moment - Orange have a network and lines and they need maintenance, upkeep and development. The money for this comes from customers so you are paying whether they call it “line rental” or not.

For point 2 - yes,I might be wrong, would love more information.

For point 3 if you know of an independent VOIP operator which can give out 01 to 04 numbers let me know, I didn’t find one but might not have looked hard enough.

I’m sure you will have the last word but you are proving nothing. All you are managing to do is to make me think that when you post with great confidence on other matters that perhaps I need to take those posts with a large dose of salt as well.

We do seem to have discussions that go round in circles don’t we? Not sure who’s fault that is but it takes two to tango as they say.

In this case you are right, in that it was a rather esoteric and somewhat geeky point with little practical use, not worth getting either of our blood pressures raised for.

However your last comment was rather a personal attack and not called for. If I make a valid comment on one subject it remains valid whatever I say on another.

Human nature will make me think twice in the future. Once bitten…

Ok you are being rude now.

And while the pot is calling the kettle black could you at least read and try to understand my points before telling me I am wrong.