"Like" Nadia :)
We often see mixed race families in France; happy black or Asian kids with white parents. it’s no big deal, but in UK it’s PC to keep kids in care until a " suitable" couple come along. Surely parents of any hue, sexual persuasion or gender is better than no parents.
As a mixed race couple, Stella and me have always taught our girls ( now 31 and 34) to appreciate both our cultures etc. They would no sooner discriminate against gay parents, mixed race parents etc., than jump over the moon, because they see further than the end of their noses.
Most of any problems in these areas stem from shallow bigotry from unthinking, blinkered people.
Be it for religious reasons, or merely the uncontrollable (it seems) 'Ickk Factor' that causes people to go out and protest about issues that really have no bearing on their personal liberties at all, this outrage comes as a surprise to me only because this is in France. But then this is the same country that banned the Burka, which to my mind is a removal of not only the veil, but a personal freedom.
I strongly defend the right to protest for anybody, even those I disagree with, so I'm not upset by the protest itself. I am obviously disappointed with the attitudes held though.
What people don't seem to gauge is that banning the personal freedom of another does eventually come back to bite you in the ass. As long as that 'freedom' does not infringe upon the safety and well being of another, then it seems to make sense that we rally for 'choice' and embrace the progression of personal freedoms for all orientations.
I am an atheist, however, no matter how much I chuckle at what I see as the absence of logic within religious groups, I would never desire to ban their rights to worship.... Why? Because it's none of my business, doesn't affect me UNTIL they try and enforce their beliefs on others, much like many at this protest did.
"Absolute bollocks" is not an argument and not conducive to a productive debate. The experience you have within your family is at best a biased anecdotal one which you haven't substantiated, and at worst, complete hyperbole.
I would be inclined to speculate as to whether it is the same-sex relationship that is adversely affecting those kids, or in deed the attitudes from family members like yourself....
Perhaps you could clarify?
Stats please Angela. Also evidence of harassment from homosexuals thanks.
Thank you Damaris, it is my point too. I am het but my brother-in-law is gay and in a very long term relationship and I would trust that couple with children, if they wanted them - which they do not, far more than many of my het friends. The world has to grow up and accept difference. It took centuries to accept white and non-white loving relationships for one, now let us all go that extra step or two and be done with it all. As you say, if people are in loving relationships and can be trusted to give what we would expect then what is the issue?
Is that an official statistic, please tell me where you found it? Everybody should always have equal rights, no arguments then.
I was bought up by my heterosexual father and step-mother who were not happy together and are now divorced. This was the abusive household that I lived in, (see my earlier post). It is not necessarily the sexual preferences of a couple that define the ability to raise and look after children. It is down to each individuals behaviour and reactions.
I believe that the separation of any household can mean that children are "screwed" up (as can remaining in a disfunctional home); and not necessarily because they have been "wrenched" out of a heterosexual relationship and put into a same sex relationship
Homosexual relationships have existed for as long as heterosexuel. The problem is that now it is being bought to the front of our daily lives and put out there for people to see instead of being "hidden in the closet" like a shameful secret.
I do not support or reject homosexual relations or marriage or child adoption. I support people who are prepared to love and nurture a child or children in a safe and loving home. Using child welfare as an argument against same sex marriage is just a big pile of b******s and a convenient excuse.
Angela, nobody is denying you the right to an opinion. Barbarin and his 'crew' are conservatives who want France back pre-1789 with royalty and such anachronisms. The Vatican cover ups are real and very serious, thank you, and public demonstration about them would be very healthy. Incest, now that is a quite nasty, insidious remark to make since the world has begun to open its eyes to the extent of sexual abuse within families, mainly by fathers at that, which is the same thing by only another name.
However, as said, you are entitled to have your views on gay marriage as I am my own. If you do not like them you can turn a blind eye because there are now so many countries already doing it that somewhere or other down the line you will be confronted by that. France almost certainly will. The same with same sex adoption which nobody can make you like but will happen.
By the way, I do not 'trawl' out sexual abuse. My wife and I work in child research, it is a major topic for a large number of academics, after too many years of gaining knowledge I do not casually 'trawl' out such a serious matter that everybody should be far more concerned about. I do not and cannot sink that morally low.
Minority groups. Hmmm now let me see - aren't we heterosexuals being harassed by another minority group? I believe only 5% of the worldwide population are homosexual. Why can't the 95% have some rights too?
I thought someone like you Brian would trawl out the priests and sexual abuse bit!!! Oh yes, I am totally anti gay 'marriage' and proud of it. Next we will legalise incest then what.
Absolute b------cks. I have two children in my family being brought up within a same sex relationship (how can anyone call it a marriage) and they are completely screwed up having been wrenched out of a heterosexual family
In my OH and my line of work we look at child abuse stats a lot and there is no evidence either way that they are worse or better as parents although in a couple of sketchy studies children brought up by two men seem to come out less, shall we say 'indoctrinated' with ideas about relationships. certainly in our mainstream area in children's rights, where children have been asked themselves they have no big deals about their family compared to children in so-called normal families. Marriage is itself a totally arbitrary action that achieves nothing in biological terms so whether gay or het is of no consequence past the point of conception/birth and whether a child has one 'natural' parent or is adopted. So what are they actually protesting about?
Exactly Damaris and the people protesting against gay marriage and adoption are using child protection as their cause.
Thanks Bruce. I did watch Stepehn Fry's video and enjoyed it. As an adult still struggling with my Catholic education it was refreshing to hear someone put so well into words my exact thoughts. A kinder, more open Catholicism which includes women, homosexuals and birth control would make more sense.
I was bought up by my step-mother and birth father from the age of 4. My step-mother physically and mentally abused me until I was 11. I then had a nervous breakdown, tried to commit suicide and was put into permanent foster care with a wonderful family.
My birth mother in the meantime moved to Canada, and ultimately met her life partner. When I first met my birth mother, I was 30 and it was to attend her marriage to my now step-mother. They were one of the first same sex couples to marry in their region and the first ones in their town. They were persecuted at the beginning of their relationship by the community that they lived in. Their cats were poisoned and they received anonymous letters. Once they moved away from this area, all was well.
I don't know if it would have made any difference if I had been bought up by them in Canada or not but I certainly have nothing against same sex couples marrying or adopting children. As a child of the care system, (I was in and out a few times whilst with my birth father), the most important thing is to be somewhere where you feel safe and protected and are not subject to random and unfair violence and abuse.
I did not say anything to the contrary. You are absolutely right about the difference. Same basket, not really, since I did not associate the two days and was responding to Bruce rather than those two separable demos.
To be precise Bruce, Alexander used it twice and nobody else, only a minority of the NSDAP membership could ever haver been accused of believing they were the direct descendants of a Germanic warrior race with Wotan as their spiritual leader, etc, so probably 99% were not that. I particularly avoided using the word.
However, to describe some of the people who marched as fanatics who are out of touch with the lives of ordinary people who they claim to represent would be appropriate. The France pre-1789 they wish to return to in their way of thinking is too far fetched even for the majority of French people who appear not to like change.
Some of you might find “Stephen Fry Takes On The Catholic Church” (part 1 and 2), on YouTube, interesting. I did.
Some of you might find “Stephen Fry Takes On The Catholic Church” (part 1 and 2), on YouTube, interesting. I did.