The word Fascist seems to have been introduced into this discussion by yourself, Alexander, and only mentioned once afterwards, in retort to your contribution.
They have had their finger in politics not so long ago and probably still do, however they are minority people anyway. If the politicians as much as bat an eyelid and go back on their promises then they will have far more trouble to deal with.
They are for the restoration of the monarchy, one that is closely aligned with the church at that, the end of state secularism, have a morbid hatred of homosexuality, feminism, other religions and I am sure more things that are not 21st century worthy in the list. Basically, along with all the whacko evangelistic groups I have bumped into in my life, they are not to be taken seriously.
The manif in Paris today was organized by the group Civitas which is an extreme
Catholic groupe.
I thought I left this stuff behind when we left the States. The one place I wouldn't have expected to find this was France.
No, as I said, not using that word. What it means is that it is a type of political ideology that is a palingenetic (reborn or regenerated, in simple language) form of populist ultranationalism. I understand it perfectly well as should every social scientist who has studied political systems moderately well at some time in their working life. Having spent my early childhood in Cologne and large parts of my adulthood in Berlin, I have known a lot of people who were in Hitler Jugend or the adult party itself and very few of them were fascists as it is over emphatically used. My position on Ratzinger is his lack on contrition for his contribution to the German state and apparent indifference to the fate of his cousin. As far removed from any belief as I personally am, the choice of this man at a time when the RC desperately needed modernisation by conservatives was unforgivable. Yes, I read 'origins' and adding the cerebral palsy piece is very frank, bearing in mind his fate had WW2 gone another way especially.
Europe is one thing and no doubt the yoke of that church will be cast off soon enough, but I worked too long in South America and saw the oppression Rome exerted on the people there. Since around 1970 much has changed and the urban people are now in the same century as you and I but the rural mostly one and a half behind and only slowly seeing change. Luckily some countries such as Brazil broke those bonds and have allowed what respectable but same sex people would like here. Ironically, there are probably far more Christian gays turned away from religion by these attitudes than they believe and on issues such as abortion and the case of Savita Halappanavar in Ireland almost entire populations become ashamed but their politicians lack the balls to reform and tell the minorities where to go. If they do not believe in something they do not have to do it themselves, so nobody forces pro-life women to have abortions. Protests for return to the dark ages do not help the world go forward.
Joseph Ratzinger was conscripted into the Hitler Youth in 40-41. He has never ever spoken out about or against the fact that one of his cousins with Down Syndrome was taken away and 'exterminated' under the eugenics programme. Our oldest daughter is also Down. We have been told by an RC priest that children with such conditions are not 'complete' so I am led to believe that the doctrine that has its source in papal authority in Rome still adheres to such beliefs. In that sense I find it perfectly acceptable to mention his past. Whether he was definably a fascist or not is another issue entirely.
That's it! From the photo in "La Depeche" the antis all looked a little too clean and blissed out.
The impartial secular state, huh!
Good for you Bruce! My daughter and her girlfriend were gazzed yesterday by the CRS while trying to counter protest peacefully. Grrr!
Glad you included 'abject' there. I doubt any of my long term Irish friends can remember what the inside of a church looks like or what the relevance of these befrocked people, apart from stroking elderly folks' heads (of which we are now all ourselves)... The modern world has got to tell Rome to shut up or put up, before they get on these moral high horses stop their priests abusing children and the Vatican investing vast amounts of money in such things as armaments manufacturing.
Just a quick interjection here. Savita was refused an abortion not because Ireland is/was primarily a Catholic country, but because of the abject failure of SIX successive Irish governments to put proper legislation in place which would have empowered the doctors to perform the termination. Because they could detect a foetal heartbeat, they had to wait, even though they knew she was miscarrying, because, at that time, her life was not in danger.
Officially, Ireland is a secular state. However,the influence of a bunch of celibate (allegedly) men wearing dresses remains strong but happily continues to be undermined, evidenced by the large numbers who marched and held vigils in Savita's memory all over Ireland this weekend (reported numbers vary but in excess of 40,000 - per capita - do the maths), demanding changes to the law.
Don't get me going on the woman in Ireland, or most of our Irish friends on here. Fair enough, the Terror' was a bit OTT but they got rid of priests, then they let them return and the state has still not manage to affirm its secular halters to this day. As you say, 85 years old, celibate (open question) ex-member of a eugenic organisation that believed in enforced abortions and extermination of those who were not useful, speaking in 2012. My OH's uncle is an emeritus bishop and he would not dare try this one because of his gay nephew living in an open partnership, niece's unmarried partnership and children with an Islamic foreigner and my own stance on religion. At least he looks around and him and sees it is best to stay mum, this man assumes the role of the one he is supposed to serve, namely God, and sorry pal but most people don't believe in that any longer....
Don’t get me going Brian. What credibility has an 85 yesr old, celibate(apparently),ex Hitler Youth member in a dress, got to do with modern life? Yet so many millions hang onto his every word!
I saw that, this week, a young mother in Ireland died, because the hospital refused to give her an abortion! She was Indian, so don’t think she was even Catholic, but they had to obey .
Going for my apero!!
Am I confused or simply nuts? I believe that France is especially proud of its secularity and the separation of church and state which is unique in most countries, well except 'communist' ones where they have an ideology instead of a theology that plays that role. If I am right about France, then why is anybody at all paying any attention to the size of this mob?
If it was people on the street in similar numbers complaining about Hollande's taxes then the police would be there with a few people stirred up to make trouble, in order to show just how bad the protesting people are. But no, this is a mob of so-called Christians, complete with all the prejudices their hierarchy can instil and intolerance for anybody who is different (next week maybe they'll be out marching against the secularity of the state, the week after that the number of Moslems, the list is endless) marching because an ignorant, celibate old man says what people he does not understand do is wrong. Could he, please, organise the same people to march against priests who sexually abuse children very soon?