PayPal - updating your browser

OK - I know this is more ‘Finance’ section - but it’s a general warning.
I did have a PayPal a/c, registered to my french address - but which included a link to my UK bank a/c, which meant I could transfer money to my daughter for treats, surprises etc.
Worked fine - no problems - until last week when, and now kicking myself, I allowed my computer to update my FireFox browser to ‘super dooper faster etc blankety blank nonsense’ - with the result that I lost the cookies, and the log-in passwords for many of my webpages - including e-Bay and PayPal.

And guess what - you lose such passwords, you’re upgraded browser won’t have ‘kept’ your passwords.
If you are fortunate enough to still have an e-Bay a/c that is linked to your UK - and I stress UK bank a/c -
you WILL LOSE THAT LINK … because PayPal are now enforcing country specific rules - once it’s gone, it’s gone.

So do NOT update your browser if you have such a PayPal UK bank account link.

I did, I have lost it, - and I’m facing big grief and big trouble over that lost link.

So be VERY, very, very careful - don’t trust any ‘up-date’, anything, any more !!

Very dangerous advice, not to trust any update ever.

I have gone through numerous updates of Firefox and never ever has any passwords been lost. Cookies may be lost for various reasons, but the passwords are still there in settings, under Logins & Passwords.

I have lived in several countries during the last 20 years, and always had to align Paypal/credit card/bank account according to the country were I lived. Normal.

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I hate to say this, Krister, but you have completely missed the warning I was giving.
Some of us have kept our UK bank accounts because we have UK income and UK expenditure. Some of us have linked our e-Bay accounts, and PayPal accounts to our UK bank accounts, even though we live in France.

All I have done was given a bit of advice, based on personal experience, that if a browser is updated, and some passwords are lost - then because of PayPal strictly enforcing their country specific T&C’s - when you enter the original password it is quite likely one may find oneself locked out of a PayPal account which is based in the UK, when you have a french address.

There are many forums of FireFox users who have faced identical problems. There are many forums of PayPal users who are facing identical problems to me. In fact, the latest version of FireFox is causing similar, widespread problems.

Your situation is completely different to what I had, in a genuine effort to help others avoid my disaster - was just a warning for those in similar situation (UK bank account linked to PayPal) just to be very, very careful, and to avoid what I had very stupidly done.

As this is not your situation then you can feel extremely relieved - but have some sympathy for others who are not as fortunate as yourself.

I agree with @Krister_Rosendahl about the dangers on not updating your browser.
As for passwords, I would recommend the use of a password manager such as LastPass. As well as working on your desktop, LP will also work across your other devices such as your tablet and phone. There is no need to lose/forget another password again.

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A straight Firefox upgrade will not lose passwords nor, for that matter, cookies.

Unless, perhaps, you clicked the “refresh Firefox” button?

Edit: Oh, and if you have a UK bank account linked to French eBay or PayPal losing browser cookies would not erase that link.

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I’m not a techie person; I obviously allowed/or did something stupid. But anything that might ‘switch off’ the link between your browser and the log-in and password sections of some webpages will certainly in the case of PayPal totally close off the avenue of using your UK bank accounts. I admit, something stupid, or weird happened with my pc . It terminated the established link between my PayPal and my UK bank a/c, and there is now no way of reinstating it. It’s gone for good.

Paul - as I understand cookies are those things that track - and remember - your past visits to sites - and they can be lost through upgrades. It’s the moment you are asked to log-in with e-mail and password - have you never had to complete a log-in page with e-mail address and password on a page you’ve visited often but for some reason you’re being asked to log-in. I just didn’t want anyone else to find themselves in farmyard manure because of a lapse of attention.
That’s all - just a warning from someone who was a bit stupid or careless.

You’re right Anne. Browser upgrades can screw up your cookies (and passwords if saved in the browser). In fact any update can screw anything up. A release of Safari a few years ago screwed up my cookies. Then the next release and few subsequent releases worked fine. Now the latest version on iPad OS has cookie problems again. I suspect it’s to do with privacy and security but I’m too lazy to investigate.

When I was a mainframe systems programmer hundreds of years ago, to the horror of my colleagues I rarely installed patches or updates unless they addressed a specific problem I had or the OS was going out of service. If one has something stable that works, unless you really need a feature of the new release, don’t bother upgrading. For every old bug the new release fixes it introduces a new one.

One of the (many) reasons I disliked Microsoft operating systems was the constant flow of fixes because it was such duff code. Now in Windows 10 you can’t even turn the updates off. Sadly Apple is heading the same way with OS updates far to often. As for the Appstore, full of dreadful code. Most days I’ve 10, 20 or even more updates. Many I’m sure are fixing the fix to the fix that was meant to fix the fix. It’s called letting the end user do the debugging. Jobs would have stamped that out but Cook doesn’t seem to understand the need for robust S/W.

About eight or nine years ago I bought 1password (I think that was the name) with a view to using it across all my devices. I never got around to setting it up, probably because I wasn’t that happy about putting all my eggs in one basket. I’m glad I didn’t now, because after years or lecturing my team on our need to develop annuity revenue streams rather than one off sales I see small software developers have twigged that too. So instead of buying a tool like 1Password, now one has to take out a subscription. Great for them but not for me. So, I’ll struggle on with my very comprehensive userid and password spreadsheet :slightly_smiling_face:

John - thank you so much for your kind words of support. I’ve totally mucked up my PayPal account - which is devastating for me on a personal level because I used it to pay for surprise treats for my daughter and grand-daughter in UK… and I’m desperately upset about losing that ability. Made me feel a bit closer to them, as in ‘Mum’s treat; Gran’s treat’ - a surprise gift or treat.

We’re advised to clear out cookies, to remove ‘stuff’ that’s been cached - and yet clearing cookies does remove passwords - I know it does.
I just don’t want anyone losing their ability (if they already have it obviously) - but if they do use PayPal linked with a UK bank account - then I just wanted to warn those people what could happen, because PayPal are now taking a much tougher line. If you have it don’t lose it; once it’s disrupted you can’t get it back.

Learn from my bitter experience, which has left me feeling very upset; it provided link with my daughter and grand-daughter - and that’s now gone.
Oh I could kick myself - again, and again, and again. I feel quite devastated by that loss - surprised myself I’ve taken it so badly - it feels personal, which is stupid.
But oh how I wish…

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I have written elsewhere on what I see as the ‘madness of passwords’ especially when being essentially ‘ordered’ to accept ‘cookies’ or not get the service!
I do not use Firefox simply because I have had no reason to, simple as that. However I have had recent problems with PayPal with whom I have dealt amicably with for more years than I care to remember. Some while ago they contacted me (and presumably others’ to say I should change my password for security reasons (theirs? Mine?). So I changed it and received confirmation and duly changed my own off-screen list address book.
I never thought about it as I am no longer an avide buyer online, but found when trying to finalise a small purchase on eBay that I could not fulfil the payment as although I seemingly got into PayPal all I got was the whirling blue circle, but real connection. So I got out and tried again a couple of days later with the same result. eBay advised that I should contact PayPal directly (in the USA from where I understood worldwide password acceptance emanates, and always has to date).
They confirmed my password and account, but it still didn’t work witheBay. Like some here I know myself to be a computer cripple. As I have also had a recent address change in the village, I thought it was a good time to try and change my personal info. and THAT didn’t work on PayPal. The only option offered was to open another PayPal account - i.e. a new one. All OK until they asked if I had a business account with them which was the original one. I said yes - but they didn’t’" ask for details, but told me they would contact me with the new account details ‘very soon’.That was a week ago.
I haven’t gone back to eBay again as the purchase wasn’t urgent in any way, and as I have yet to receive the confirmation I really don’t want to waste my time.
My convoluted point being I am not sure the problems outlined have anything to do with Firefox or updates, but simply a systems cock-up from PayPal?

I don’t suppose there are any remnants of your previous Mozilla profile on your PC which might contain the information (passwords, etc) that you might need ? Usually, Firefox (and Thunderbird) create a profile for each user. This profile is stored in a folder with a name containing a (pseudo)random sequence of numbers and letters. If you can find this folder on your system (which I’m assuming is Windows), you might be able to restore all of your settings (and saved passwords).

Another warning for Paypal users is that Paypal is in the process of enforcing 2FA - you will be required to activate 2-factor authentication in order to continue using the Paypal service - coming into force pretty soon. This is linked to the EU regulations around the Money Laundering Directive under which financial service providers have to provide secure authentication to their platform.

Additionally, and possibly as a surprise to some, Paypal’s T&Cs have been changed such that Paypal will be entitled to charge you for NOT using your Paypal account. In other words, dormant or intermittent activity accounts might be charged for continuing to exist. It seems that the decision to charge you remains at Paypal’s discretion, although I haven’t read up all of the details on this. Quite how they are going to charge you and collect with information that may be out of date (especially for dormant accounts) remains to be seen.

LastPass will cost you nothing when only using the password management system to safely store your account passwords for Facebook, Amazon, and more on your computer or mobile device.
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Ah, did you manually clear cookies/cache and “forget this website” - yes, that forgets rather more than you’d want it to.

But to say “don’t upgrade Firefox, you will lose all your passwords” is, or at any rate should be, wrong and just panics people unnecessarily - I’ve upgraded Firefox multiple times over multiple platforms and not lost either passwords or existing sessions (but I did learn the hard way that “forget this website” really does forget all of it, not just cookies - thankfully some minor thing with an easy password recovery method).

PayPal, as well as all the other sites affected, have password recovery methods - go through those (it might need you to phone or write) but as long as you know the email address connected with the account you should eventually be able to get your account, and link with family, back.

At the simplest level “cookies” are almost impossible to avoid if you want to use any site which needs you to log in, or has a basket of items, or has any sort of multi-page ordering process; it’s just the way that web sites are coded.

However sites are supposed to give you control over 3rd party cookies - though some present this in such a user-unfriendly manner that it is clear they want to put you off actually disabling any.

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Yes, a cookie is a bit of info that the web site wants to remember between accesses - sometimes just within one session (the fact that you logged in, for example), sometimes between multiple sessions (your “preferences” on the site, for example).

Clearing cookies might indeed mean that you have to log back in, as can updates at their end which clear out cookie data such as an update to the website software.

But a straight browser upgrade should not do that - and regular browser upgrades are generally advised to avoid security problems.

Have you tried the “Having trouble logging in?” (“Vous n’arrivez pas à vous connecter?”) link

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The vast majority of the foregoing has gone right over the top of my head, so I don’t want to argue with people more techie than me, which probably means 99% of the population of the world.

But, I have an innate lack of trust in change and anything which appears to threaten what I do day to day. So, I gave up PayPal so many years ago now that I can’t remember what was the awful thing they did at the time, but I remember it was serious. I resist all attempts (tempts?) to use any outside organisation to keep my passwords for me, as I do with storing my vital info on anybody else’s system.

All my stuff is saved on 2 external drives, plugged in for use each time and then unplugged. This system is not infallible because it relies in part on my poor brain and its poorer memory.

Thus I have one small problem that, someone that I haven’t already shocked into contemptuous refusal, might help me with.

In trying to revive a tablet to accept my Livebox again I have been asked to log in to my Orange account. But I have forgotten the password and have a vague memory of changing it many years ago but not recording the change on my otherwise infallible system. I have been offered a way to get a new password but that will be sent by snailmail and take 7 working days. My question is, will my otherwise continueing and reliable internet connection via Orange go down while it waits for the new password?

Shouldn’t do, the password that the box sends to the other end to establish your internet connection is a completely different password to that on your Orange account.

Thank you Paul, I was worried because the tablet is trying to contact my Livebox, the same Livebox that it used to contact before it stopped doing so some time ago, and the same Livebox that provides my connection to my PC and laptop. The laptop certainly didn’t require a password in order to connect.

The laptop did require a password the first time it connected, and then it remembers it.
Unless you’re connected by ethernet cable, of course.

Note there are two different passwords:

  1. used by the box to connect to the internet. This one is given by Orange when you setup the box. Normally never changes.
  2. used by your laptop to connect to the local Wifi network of the Livebox.

If your PC is connected by cable, you can easily connect to the admin interface of the Livebox at 192.168.1.1 and check what the Wifi password is. If you have the Livebox 4, you can press the I (as in information) button at the front and the wifi password will be shown in the little display (unless you have disabled this feature).

Actually, there is a third password: for your Orange account on their web site. This one has nothing to do with connecting your tablet to the Wifi network.

Paul - and everyone else; very interesting comments - particularly about PayPal. It IS PayPal which has caused this problem. Yes, I’ve got to the page you’ve displayed - it recognises my e-mail address - but it will NOT accept my password. I’ve been on the live help-line on PayPal and they were unable to help.

Because - and this is IMPORTANT - it is VITAL everyone remembers this. PayPal is COUNTRY specific - due to the new eu regs (yup, good old eu). It is, and will be - Absolutelyt B----Y Impossible to live in France, and to have a PayPal account linked to a UK bank account. They are tightening up, doing a sweep. You will NOT be able to open a PayPal account (new one) if, living in France, you want to link it to your UK account. According to the live chat - living in France - it MUST be linked to your FRENCH bank a/c…
I’ve done everything I can think of. In uninstalling the new (all singing, all dancing) version of Firefox, because of the problems it gave me - I have lost all my restore points - so I’m stuck. I’ve downloaded the older version of FireFox I was using - but having lost my restore points, I can’t ‘go back’ to before this problem started; I’m having to cope the best I can.
But prior to that I still encountered problems with PayPal - something destroyed that link - and I cannot now have a PayPal account linked to my UK bank.

Just Be Warned everyone - be very, very careful.
I am beginning to hate this modern life; we are tracked, watched, restricted more and more and treated as though we were all criminals, money launderers…watched and controlled, and modern techno with everything being ‘improved’ all the time does not help.
This modern world has problems - yes, a lot of life is easier - but it has its downsides…being watched, …not being trusted…I’m becoming neurotic and paranoid - and a Miserable Grumpy Old Person…

I’ll survive without PayPal, but am very sad to have lost it because of the family link it gave me.
Let this be a lesson to you all with UK linked PayPals - guard that link with your life - be careful.

Hang on - I though you said that you had forgotten the password, having lost it from Firefox, so when you say “but it will NOT accept my password” what do you mean?

If you follow the forgotten password link it should send you an email containing instructions on how to reset it.